Why Trump is a good president for 2020, and Bernie Sanders is not.
Unfortunately, the context of this debate was directed at another user on a debating site called debate.org
I will also link that in case you feel you need context.
u think trump is a good president?
Yes, of course. Who wouldn't? He may be immature, but he certainly gets things done.
If you have access to pastebin.com, this will be much easier to view. For the sake of this debate, I will post my original opponent's views as well.
thousands of people didnt get paid for a month including my mom cause he wants to build a stupid wall
Obama cut funding for NASA by 20%
so?
I read this https://www.internations.org/world-forum/is-donald-trump-usa-s-greatest-president-ever-4458398
They're both stupid decisions.
to pay for health care
Thats not the point shes trying to make
The healthcare that doesn't support everyone?
most
It supports minorities. What about homeless white males? They almost certainly don't get covered.
and trump dont care about people not getting paid he was rich all his life
So?
I think I like some things he's done but, not all of it. I don't like him as a person though still. Only a little bit of my opinion changed for now
Let me paste my debate with the democratic socialist.
ORIGINALLY POSTED BY PRO "billsand" "American once again needs change real radical change, After 4 disasterous years of gropen fuher trump, The young genration has moved to the left and Bernie is the man for the job. . Creepy joe will just molest more kids if we make him president"
My rebuttal "American once again needs change[, ] real radical change, " I agree with this statement. The Democratic party is ruining everything about the United States, Especially Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden. "After 4 [disastrous] years of [groping] [F"hrer] [Trump], " Nothing about President Donald Trump's years as president has been disastrous. He has defeated MOST of ISIS, He has cut down on taxes, Given more support to black men and women and is protecting the US from illegal immigrants. I don't see negatives in his presidency. "The young [generation] has moved to the left and Bernie is the man for the job. " I just looked for some kind of proof on this. They are all different. Some statistics show they are Liberalists, And then others think they are Conservatives. It's a very murky thing to generalize a whole generation. I would argue that if they are more left, It's because of Democrats feeding the children radical ideas such as, Women have less rights in the US, Being fat doe not mean you are unhealthy, And other such ridiculous claims from the left. It is also statistically proven that most Colleges DO NOT accept Republican speakers, And prefer Democratic. This teaches college students that Republicans are some kind of evil beings who want to kill everyone. I would argue that Donald Trump is better than Bernie Sanders as Sanders supports the same ideology as Adolf Hitler. (Democratic Socialism) Bernie also wants to raise taxes, And have more government control in businesses and trading, Which I definitely do not agree with. Trump wants taxes to be the same for everyone. EQUALITY. "Creepy joe will just molest more kids if we make him president" I would argue that Joe Biden (not that i like him or would even consider voting for him) is a much better candidate for the Democratic republic. He believes in everything a normal slight-leftist would agree with. I researched all of the bills he signed, What he opposed and also what other views on oil mining and such is, And he seems much more of a better candidate than Socialist Bernie Sanders. Joe Biden is pretty creepy around kids, But you are a disgusting being if you automatically assuming he is a pedophile. You need to make more defensible arguments as what you have stated are just opinions and statements. Pro does not seem to actually no anything about Joe Biden, Or anything about "Generation Z"
Pro's rebuttal The left today sees the third way as a dead end. Many of the new socialists are millennials. Some 51% of Americans aged 18-29 have a positive view of socialism, Says Gallup. In the primaries in 2016 more young folk voted for Bernie Sanders than for Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump combined. Almost a third of French voters under 24 in the presidential election in 2017 voted for the hard-left candidate. But millennial socialists do not have to be young. Many of Mr Corbyn"s keenest fans are as old as he is. If you look at what Bernie Sanders wants it isnt socialist at all not really you consevatives slip up when you declare nordic nations are in no way socialsitic, Which is half true they are hybrid mixed economies, Which is what i think of when i use the word, Western european democratic socialsim, Or social democracy, Nordic model, Rhinleand capitalism, Social market theory, Take you pick, I'm not going to waste times debating this silly thing. What i call socialsim isnt i know that you use it as a dirty word, I use it with pride, Because as a student of history know damend well it is inevitable sometime in the future. . Either that or a new stone age. . Again take your pick all the thngs bernie askes for free health care( well not free but free at point of use) free college, Germany has had for well over 100 years, Well free university maybe only 50, But they are basically a market freindly nation with a good welfare state and a co determination policy requiring union representative to sit on all board of directors of business with more than 400 employees, Call it corproratism you might even call it fascism, If that is fascism then a ima a fascist if it is socialsim i am socialsit if it is just a more humane form of the market system? I'm all for that. . A rose by any other name
I kinda like this part: President Trump created 400,000 manufacturing jobs reaching a ten-year high. According to the Labor Department in July Protected content , American workers saw the largest increase in wages and benefits over the previous twelve months under President Trump, since September Protected content . The Labor Department reported in early September Protected content American wages in the previous year grew at the fastest rate since Protected content . In April Protected content , unemployment in the USA fell to 3.9%, the lowest level since Protected content . Also in April Protected content , the number of job openings hit a record high, actually exceeding the number of unemployed Americans looking for jobs. The Labor Department reported that the youth unemployment rate in July Protected content to its lowest level in 52 years. This includes Black, Hispanic and Asian unemployment rates hitting record lows.
Ah, I'll get to that soon.
My next argument was in a pastebin because of posting problems
I will paste it in full here, however.
My rebuttal First read this: https://news.gallup.com/poll/183713/socialist-presidential-candidates-least-appealing.aspx?utm_source=Politics&utm_medium=newsfeed&utm_campaign=tiles Gallup says most people would rather vote for a gay, a Catholic, a black person, an atheist, and a Muslim than a socialist. In fact 93% would vote for a Catholic, and 92% a woman. 50% of people in the US dislike socialism, 47% would vote for socialism, and 3% are undecided. It is popular, but not the most popular. 49% of Independents would vote for a socialist, so that means 51% wouldn't. (there goes you leftist thing argument) Republicans are more likely to vote for a Jew than a Democrat is. (hahaha) Okay now we start the actual debate: All I have to say that socialism has failed. Multiple times. Capitalism isn't failing and never will. It's a very well structured system. For example, the government doesn't involve itself in much of our monetary business. The only thing they do are taxes at a pretty reasonable rate to allow the government to protect our country, explore space etc. This means the government can focus it's money on important things. With socialism, the government would own all sorts of businesses, land, homes and properties that were originally owned by the people who worked for it. The government would be able to control the economy, and on top of that, the government would control absolutely everything that is given to the people. (and the government owns the land and other such property, so that would be an issue if the government refuses to give property to people) The main argument I see you using is Germany. Germany is a very strange system because personal property (land) is completely allowed thus making it capitalist. Say what you will, but you can't use it as an example when the main point of socialism is when the government has control over all private property. So how does that make sense? How can it be socialist if you can own land? Just because Germany is called socialist doesn't mean it is. Corporations completely run Germany, workers run Germany, bosses run Germany. Might be hard to take in, but Germany is essentially Capitalistic, with socialistic values. (such as higher taxes for "free" health care.) One main thing you have to keep in mind about this is around 40% of Germany lives off the government without working. So the tax-payers (corporations and people who are working hard, because it is a Capitalist country) have to pay to keep these people from working. Doesn't make sense. If you want to use a country for an example of socialism try using these ones that have tried: China, Cambodia, Cuba, EAST Germany, Ethiopia, North Korea, Poland, Romania, USSR and Venezuela. [source: https://www.forbes.com/pictures/eglg45hljjk/countries-that-have-trie/#5c50a15f25d9] What makes you think the US will miraculously be able to practice socialism? Also, here's a list of CURRENT countries with socialistic values: China (I doubt you would want to live there, I've been there and there's way more homeless people than the US) Denmark (This has many benefits from socialism, except taxes. Taxes are the highest in the world here, which is unfortunate. Also 70% of businesses have 50 employees or less.) Finland (the literacy rate here is very huge due to college fees being low-to-nill but the taxes are extraordinarily high. Also is very capitalistic in nature.) Canada (capitalistic with socialist values) Sweden (many government interventions in the economy due to them being in debt) Ireland (25% of GDP goes to welfare, in the US only 15% goes to Social Security. Arguably good, but still capitalistic in terms of market) New Zealand (calls themselves Capitalistic, but at the same time has socialistic values such as welfare and such) Belgium (too much of the government's budget goes to the same things New Zealand offers.) Every single one above is not a social country, (except China, arguably) but a Welfare State. A Welfare State practices capitalism in terms of wealth and private property, but also allows the government to remove any externalities using laws such as pollution laws. ""Call it corproratism you might even call it fascism, If that is fascism then a ima a fascist if it is socialsim i am socialsit if it is just a more humane form of the market system? I'm all for that. . A rose by any other name"" Well, you stated Germany was an example. I mentioned it in one of my points above. In all aspects of private property, it is capitalist. Even parts of the economy is capitalist there. As I mentioned before, it's a mix. Therefore it would make you a capitalist whether you like it or not. Congratulations, you played yourself. ALL SOURCES: https://www.thebalance.com/socialism-types-pros-cons-examples-3305592 https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/socialism-ruin-nations/ https://www.aei.org/publication/why-socialism-failed-a-2018-update-part-i/ http://www.aei.org/publication/why-socialism-always-fails/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/hey-democrats-ive-lived-in-a-socialist-country-with-income-equality-and-it-was-miserable https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2018/07/08/sorry-bernie-bros-but-nordic-countries-are-not-socialist/#7baa1a7c74ad https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-that-are-considered-socialist.html https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/28/trump-wisconsin-rally-touts-economy https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/hey-democrats-ive-lived-in-a-socialist-country-with-income-equality-and-it-was-miserable https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2018/07/08/sorry-bernie-bros-but-nordic-countries-are-not-socialist/#7baa1a7c74ad https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-that-are-considered-socialist.html https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/28/trump-wisconsin-rally-touts-economy
His rebuttal (which calls my an anti-semite for whatever reason) Actually your fault of not its your responsibility to deal with problems not mine, I have experienced the same glitches, Know what? Life is hard dealt with it, I did. . Now are you jewish? You accused Bernie sanders a jew of advocating policies like Adolf Hitler, You could be sued for libel, I have actually sued people for making such accusations so, Think very carefully about your words. Who is Bernie advocating to genocide hm? You have committed a rather sad and low iq association fallacy, An association fallacy is like when you say Bernie Sander is like Hitler because Hitler liked puppies and rank water and so does Bernie, It is an association of irrelevancy, Do you know what that means. I know bog words might be hard for you, You yourself are not stupid, But the audience you pander to must thin k you are as rock stupid as they are, Thats your con isn't it? Let me ask you a question. What are your feeling about the present government of Germany? Is it communist? Is it nazi? Everything and i mean everything Bernie asks for exists in Germany now, It was a system developed between the Christian Democrat and the Social Democrats negotiating to create a social market economy. Hardly anything communist or nazi which by the way were opposites more than similar. . Please avoid making anti- semitic, Remarks. . Or i will have to resort to reducto ad hitlerum as you have. . Really that was beneath you. . Or was it?
boi im not reading all of this XD
My final rebuttal and last statement WRITTEN BY @StevenCrowder FOR debate.org DO NOT STEAL AS YOUR OWN WORK. What are you talking about? Nothing I have said has been "anti-semitic" I stated that Bernie Sanders advocates for what he calls, "democratic socialism" which is the same political system that Adolf Hitler used to gain his power. That is not ant-semitic, that is fact. I could not be sued for libel if it is a true statement. Bernie Sanders is a democratic socialist: https://www.time.com/4121126/bernie-sanders-democratic-socialism/ Adolf Hitler used the same type of socialism to make himself extremely powerful, therefore becoming a dictatorship. He seemed to have supported socialism, and then completely discarded it at power. He used the ideology to give himself power. That's why the name is "Nation Socialist Party" and yet he wasn't a socialist. So yes, maybe Hitler didn't really support socialism, but he tricked everyone into thinking he did. That's why socialism could be an issue. If government control is what you want, they could turn on the citizens whenever they want to. Just like Hitler. Insulting me will no longer NOT work, you also managed to not answer any of my questions. I clearly said the German government is only socialist in terms of welfare and taxes, everything else is capitalist. So you would not be supporting socialism, you would be supporting a mixture of capitalism and socialism. You are therefore a capitalist in nature, because you do believe in capitalism. I recommend you read this book. It explains why Germany is capitalist, but also socialist. https://www.link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057/9780230597808_9 (it costs money, so if you are not interested, not my problem.) Pro has not listed any links to their one single source in the first argument in round 2, and Pro has no other sources in the whole debate. Pro has also been very personal and keeps using modern Germany to express democratic socialism, when it is not the same as Bernie's views. Germany still has lots of different capitalistic values. Pro has also called me anti-semitic for telling facts. ALSO, I WANT TO POINT OUT THAT BERNIE SANDERS' DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM WILL INEVITABLY LEAD TO COMMUNISM! https://www.theepochtimes.com/will-democratic-socialism-lead-to-communism_2777705.html Again, Trump is a much better candidate than both of the candidates you want. Let's see what he has done to benefit us: The Trump blast is profiting those deserted by the Obama economy. Assembling employments developed at the quickest rate in 23 years and the joblessness rate for Americans without a secondary school certificate achieved the absolute bottom at any point recorded. The Wall Street Journal reports that compensation rose 3.1 percent — the greatest hop since 2009 — and that "low-gifted laborers are among the greatest recipients." Trump has made huge strides for women in the CIA. Trump not just selected Gina Haspel as the CIA's first director to be a woman, yet in addition made Elizabeth Kimber the first woman to lead the organization's secret administration — compensating the CIA's "band of sisters" who have drudged to protect the nation since 9/11. America became the largest world's largest oil producers in the world. https://money.cnn.com/2018/09/12/investing/us-oil-production-russia-saudi-arabia/index.html The US military (under the Trump administration) managed to capture Hajin, which was one of the very last areas of ISIS occupied land. ISIS is nowhere near defeated, but for the most part, they have no land to fight defend. Trump supported Iranian protestors, where Obama chose not to. https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-administration-announces-support-for-iran-protests Trump has affirmed a record 85 judges in his initial two years as president. That complete incorporates two Supreme Court judges, 30 re-appraising court judges and 53 region judges who will direct for a considerable length of time. Trump's effective battle for Kavanaugh likewise helped him grow his Senate larger part, as stimulated Republican voters tossed out four Democratic occupants who opposed Kavanaugh. Trump signed a bill that allows terminally ill citizens easier access to experimental medication. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/right-to-try-bill-trump-signing-will-it-help-terminally-ill-patients-today-2018-05-30/ Thank you for your time, Pro.
Sorry about the double negative.
If you noticed it.
I still don't like how Trump shut down the government leaving people out of pay, he did that in an Immature way in my opinion. If he was more mature about it then maybe I would've been fine with it. To me he did it in a: You won't give me a wall, I'll shut the government down until I get what I want, kinda way
^
they seem like good facts ig but everyone has a different mindset i respect ur opinion
Are you the real Steven Crowder?
I respect everyone's opinions when it comes to politics
That's the problem with democrats though. Facts don't count. Sources don't matter. History never happened.
Politics is the only subject I'm open to people changing my mind if they choose to try, with everything else I'm kinda stubborn
^
You know what, I honestly am starting to think trump isn't so bad. I mean, of course he's just trying to protect us in his ways with the wall, but he should just raise taxes by just a cent, and he'd get sooo much money.
Although democrats do still blame whites for racism during slavery, which I condemn, but whites were the first race to stop slavery. Black people in Africa had their own slaves. Indians had Indian slaves. In fact most slaves were bought from African slave-owners, but democrats keep trying to use it against white people.
@misty34 For the sake of clarification, Trump isn't the only one to blame for the government shutdown. Republican and Democrat legislators alike were culprits in that debacle. Such is the nature of modern politics with its hardcore partisanship.
@Shadow good point. I do think that he still should've propped the government back up, to avoid issues.
I disapprove of Obama's 20% cut on NASA for health care that doesn't even benefit most people.
In fact, Obama shut down the entire government just like Trump.
Except for the above-mentioned healthcare, that doesn't benefit most people.
So tell me why Bernie isn't a good candidate. He means well.
In simple terms, Congress gave Trump a plan that would fund the government. Since it didn't include the funding he wanted for his wall, he rejected it. The Democrats allowed the government to stay by not conceding, whilst Trump also allowed the shutdown by not conceding, himself. Either sides supporters would have chastised the leader if they backed down. Just so you understand the position that these individuals were in @PinkGlitterz
They should have still gave some sort of pay to the people that worked for the government when they shut it down. They have families to feed and bills to pay just like us
Bernie thinks socialism is good.
@StevenCrowder One of the core elements of a debate is defining your terms. Did you define what a "good president" is?
True, but he is just doing his best to protect us.
This is so much more fun than school....
^
\(\color{#0cbb34}{\text{Originally Posted by}}\) @Kamauri u think trump is a good president? \(\color{#0cbb34}{\text{End of Quote}}\) \(\color{#0cbb34}{\text{Originally Posted by}}\) @StevenCrowder Yes, of course. Who wouldn't? He may be immature, but he certainly gets things done. \(\color{#0cbb34}{\text{End of Quote}}\) This seems to be the extent to which you have done so...
If you read this, you'll find there are compelling articles that explain how Bernie Sanders' view of socialism, will inevitably lead to our most hated political ideology, communism. https://www.theepochtimes.com/will-democratic-socialism-lead-to-communism_2777705.html
Here, type what you think socialism is in your own words.
^
Of course, many Bernie fans don't know this.
Socialism is when the government owns all property and can control the economy.
im not a fan of either
Okay, now look up the definition and copy and paste it. Look at the difference.
Communism is when everyone owns each other's property together.
hm. very different, right?
But, Bernie's views are not traditional socialism.
He's a "democratic socialist" which is his way of saying, I am a socialist, but I am also a communist at the same time.
And maybe throw a tiny bit of capitalism
Wait wait why are you even doing this? Most of us can't even vote yet lol
true
Same
^
Because he is secretly Trump
Still no point
Generation Z is brainwashed. The younger generation need to be taught the truth, so that when they can vote, they don't vote because of political correctness, like Hillary Clinton. (also, Hillary got dead people to vote for her)
?
Well, my family never votes, soooo xD
Around 51% of Generation Z think socialism is good because of leftist nonsense.
I'm not brainwashed
I know right.....
im not either
My family doesn't vote cause neither of the 2 are good presidents.
lel
Just because the healthcare is "free" doesn't make it highly beneficial.
But Obama isn't president anymore. That doesn't matter.
You have to 1) pay higher taxes 2) charge people who have worked hard and earned more higher taxes and 3) charge companies extremely high taxes, which will make companies such as Google and Apple leave America.
I'm sorry. I still don't get why you said Generation Z is brainwashed. Like said above, none of us are brainwashed. I'm thinking you wanna brainwash us right now mate
Who charges companies high taxes?
Like I literally said above, 51% of Generation Z think socialism is good.
Bernie Sanders wants to, and Hillary tried to.
WHAT EVEN IS SOCIALISM
LOL
When government owns all property.
I don't have an opinion about socialism
^
I'm gaining some fans.... NICE
I'm no fan of socialism, however it will be helpful when having issues with property, then the government will have control over what happens, and they will have to pay for the destruction of buildings, normally from natural events.
100th reply....
\(\color{#0cbb34}{\text{Originally Posted by}}\) @Brooklynexe WHAT EVEN IS SOCIALISM \(\color{#0cbb34}{\text{End of Quote}}\) If you don't know what that means, why are you trying to add your input?
@pinkglitterz Trust me. Socialism is not good except for healthcare that arguably, isn't even free. Also, Bernie wants abortions to be free. So I am paying for people to kill babies?
Abortions should be illegal.
I'm against abortions
Yeah, and Bernie wants it to be covered under tax-payers.
Bernie wants it to be free, which most likely will cause more deaths of babies.
@misty34 so am i
It's not free. Tax-payers are paying for it.
im all against abortions unless its used for rape and incest.
That will mean I pay for an abortion pretty much everyday if you think about it.
Rape and incest are only 1% of abortion reasons.
The vast majority is because of convenience.
Also, have I mentioned Trump is against abortions?
i didnt know that
Then why is it legal to do it?
^
true, Bernie shouldn't have abortions free. What is Trump's status on this?
While mostly at checkups, they ask most 13 year old's or younger would they be willing to go on the pill for planned parenthood. That's free. But that doesn't stop most of them to become impregnate. The effect of it all can cause birth defects in which cases they should of planned on abortion in the first place. Not that I'm for abortion or anything. It's downright wrong in my own opinion. There are most cases where as most children who survived abortion and tell their story about it and how they survived. For example, Gianna Jessen. She was an abortion survivor in which cases she wasn't suppose to live for long. She even has her own birth issues, like cerebral palsy. When most women find out that they're pregnant would be in 4-6 weeks or so, that's when you're able to actually find the baby's pulse instead of calling it a "blob" or "tissue" Another example, if a man or a woman tries to hurt the pregnant mother and knowing that she is pregnant and tries to harm either or, he's known for attempt murder. But if the mother tries to abort the child, that doesn't make it as murder. That just doesn't add up.
Also, when someone kills a pregnant woman, it counts as a double homicide.
Exactly.
This is probably the most fun I ever had on this site...
I hope it's educating people who don't know about all the things in this thread as the media portrays Trump as some kind of villain who wants to kill Mexicans.
Colleges, schools and universities are also guilty of it.
I worked with 2 mexicans that are illegally here and they were such Wizardbags... my brother works with another mexican and he a Wizardbag too
"wizardbag" was meant to be a different word lol
I am assuming either "Air" or "a$$hole"
Oh, hahaha.
Lol
At least you're not generalizing, so you aren't being racist. Although I would watch yourself, Democrats will be offended for illegal immigrants, even though it's not offensive to illegal immigrants.
Democrats and the left are redefining the first amendment.
Ya
Some mexicans are awesome tho but some are sucky
I guess it's just the person. Not all Mexicans are bad :P
I only dislike the illegal ones. They are already criminals for breaking the law. (crossing the border illegally)
Yeaaa same here.
Lock up all the criminals
No. With illegal immigrants in all countries, you deport them.
So they would come back? Lol
Well, if they continue doing it, they have no respect for our laws. They don't deserve to be in a country, where they don't respect the law.
So lock them up :P
^
Wait in line with the other legal immigrants. And mind you, those legal immigrants oppose illegal immigrants.
Wait why don't they just come here legally, idk about that stuff soo
It's not exactly racist when the legal immigrant thinks it is unfair how an illegal immigrant thinks they can just waltz over, when the legal immigrant had to wait in line for it.
Yup
And it's not just Mexicans. I met an Australian illegal immigrant once.
Oh dang
All the legal Australian immigrants would be Buttered off at him for sure.
For sure Ahh crap I was too interested in this and missed my live class lol
(I'm homeschool)
If you wanted to check out the original debate, here it is: https://www.debate.org/debates/Bernie-sanders-is-better-than-creepy-joe-biden/1/
this finally died XD
Lol
this was interesting to read by far!
@adovbush @misty34 trump is against abortion but the supreme court already legalized abortion, so there's nothing he can do. i think roe v. wade is what you're looking for
and then planned parenthood vs. casey
I understand
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