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Mathematics 23 Online
Ballery1:

can someone algebraically show me how to plug and chug for every x value into the function? i'm having hard time dealing with power functions. wait let me draw tho.

Ballery1:

|dw:1560604650881:dw|

Ballery1:

|dw:1560604785561:dw|

Ferredoxin4:

If you want to find the value of f(x) when x is, say -3, here's what you would do: f(x)=3x- 1/3 You want to find when x=-3. The algebraic notation for this is f(-3). Replace the x variable with the value, -3. 3(-3) - 1/3 You can try this and you'll get your answer. Apply the same thing for the other values.

Ballery1:

what do u mean *apply the same thing on the other side*? be more specific plz :)

Ferredoxin4:

"Apply the same thing for the other values" Do the same for f(-2), f(-1), etc.

Ballery1:

im having trouble with powers... ..wait i'm drawing it out for u. 1 sec

Ferredoxin4:

Oh, I couldn't tell that was an exponent.

Ferredoxin4:

That changes all the values. Ignore what I said earlier Let me explain:

Ballery1:

|dw:1560605857906:dw|

Ballery1:

For the sake of Santa clause...i’ll Draw out the question more clearly. 1 sec

Ferredoxin4:

No, you made a mistake in the second step. The power applies to the entire binomial.

Ballery1:

|dw:1560606147071:dw|

Ballery1:

Ok wait, let me try one more time... wait and check my second attempt

Ferredoxin4:

Recall that if a power is a fraction, the numerator is the power and the denominator is the index of the radical.

Ferredoxin4:

Sure

Ballery1:

Don’t do the question for me. Let me struggle myself. Just correct when when am wrong

Ferredoxin4:

Sure, do you want a suggestion though?

Ballery1:

|dw:1560606291768:dw|

Ferredoxin4:

You're getting a step closer. Now the '4' should go inside the radical and around the binomial.

Ferredoxin4:

First comes power, then comes root.

Ballery1:

What do u mean by *the denominator is the index of the radical*?

Ballery1:

So do I switch the 4 and 7?

Ferredoxin4:

Index of a radical is like \[\sqrt[index]{n}\]

Ferredoxin4:

What you're rooting it by. In this case it's 7

Ferredoxin4:

1 attachment
Ballery1:

Oki dokie

Ballery1:

Wait, let me write it out again

Ferredoxin4:

Sure

Ballery1:

|dw:1560606573981:dw|

Ferredoxin4:

Correct.

Ballery1:

Omg I’m shoooo happy. I’m finally learning to do these without the calculator lol thanks mate...wait let’s continue 😀

Ferredoxin4:

np

Ballery1:

|dw:1560606790085:dw|

Ballery1:

|dw:1560606926145:dw|

Ballery1:

Do I take the sq root of q23 and then multiply by 7?

Ferredoxin4:

Do you have an option in your calculator?

Ferredoxin4:

No you wouldn't do that

Ballery1:

One second. Let me try that. U confirm if it’s right or wrong. I jus wanna see what happens

Ferredoxin4:

Sure

Ballery1:

77.7.6 lol

Ballery1:

What single steps do I plugin into my calculator to find the right answer?

Ferredoxin4:

Okay that would be wrong

Ferredoxin4:

let me check your calculator model and see

Ferredoxin4:

Is it a scientific/graphic calculator or normal?

Ballery1:

Ofc it’s a scitific calculator mate 🙂😇

Ballery1:

But jus really really old

Ferredoxin4:

There should be an option like \[\sqrt[x]{ }\]

Ballery1:

I have an option of....wait let me draw

Ferredoxin4:

Maybe look up a tutorial for it and figure out where that option is. I don't have a casio calculator so I'm not sure about how they work

Ferredoxin4:

sure

Ballery1:

|dw:1560607391240:dw|

Ballery1:

Wait. What’s the answer mate?

Ferredoxin4:

It's okay, I think you can still do it without a calculator.

Ferredoxin4:

The answer is like 3.5

Ferredoxin4:

3.58

Ballery1:

Whole dawn... let me try some stuff

Ferredoxin4:

Here's what you'd need to do without a calculator: Apply a principle of exponents: \[(\frac{ x }{ y })^{n}\] = \[\frac{ x^n }{ y^n }\]

Ferredoxin4:

Sure

Ferredoxin4:

So you would do that for the radicand.

Ballery1:

|dw:1560607637712:dw|

Ferredoxin4:

No, let's go back to where we had (-10/3)^4

Ferredoxin4:

\[\sqrt[7]{(\frac{ -10 }{ 3 })^4}\]

Ferredoxin4:

Apply the principle I just showed you.

Ballery1:

|dw:1560607832415:dw|

Ballery1:

|dw:1560607914842:dw|

Ballery1:

|dw:1560607952007:dw|

Ferredoxin4:

No, only for the radicand. Don't do the 4/7

Ferredoxin4:

It should be \[(\frac{ -10 }{ 4 })^4\]

Ballery1:

|dw:1560607981083:dw|

Ferredoxin4:

We are applying this principle within the radical

Ferredoxin4:

It's fine

Ballery1:

Ok ok ok ok... so right right we r only solving what’s within the root?

Ferredoxin4:

For now, yes. ...Also, I just noticed you made a mistake WAY earlier

Ferredoxin4:

Ballery1:

|dw:1560608075951:dw|

Ballery1:

Wait, let me take the first stab at this plz

Ferredoxin4:

Yes yes but wait a second. You got the radicand portion wrong and I failed to notice. My apologies. -9-1/3 isn't -10/3

Ferredoxin4:

It's -28/3. You didn't take the correct common denominator.

Ferredoxin4:

-9 would be -27/3. Do not fret, these mistakes occur often. Just make sure you don't take simpler portions of a problem lightly.

Ferredoxin4:

So now you have (-28/3)^4

Ballery1:

|dw:1560608170099:dw|

Ferredoxin4:

\[\sqrt[7]{(\frac{ -28 }{ 3 })^4}\] Without using a calculator, we would first evaluate the radicand.

Ferredoxin4:

Correct, you're on the right path. Keep going

Ballery1:

|dw:1560608342406:dw|

Ferredoxin4:

But the parenthesis should go to the denominator as well

Ferredoxin4:

Correct

Ferredoxin4:

Now apply the principle I showed you earlier to the radicand

Ballery1:

|dw:1560608384306:dw|

Ferredoxin4:

Correct

Ballery1:

|dw:1560608448048:dw|

Ferredoxin4:

Correct

Ballery1:

|dw:1560608499888:dw|

Ferredoxin4:

Yes. That is also correct, you're just switching the form.

Ballery1:

Got em!

Ferredoxin4:

Do you want to simplify it more?

Ballery1:

Now here’s the issue with my calculator....watch.

Ferredoxin4:

It won't be much, and usually, this form is accepted as well.

Ferredoxin4:

Sure

Ballery1:

|dw:1560608606309:dw|

Ballery1:

I need to right down this whole question on a paper. Brb. Your a legend mate. I think I should call u Jesus from here nwo

Ballery1:

On*

Ballery1:

I have more fraction power questions tho. I was suppose to find their domains and ranges ....i was plugin in different ‘x’ values into the function to plot the graph...and my crappy calculator would gimme stupid answers. Thanks tho

Ferredoxin4:

Ah okay. For domain and range I suggest you take the limits (RHL and LHL) of them or it would take too long. There's 1 discontinuity there.

Ballery1:

Now I’m getting the right answers. Wait let me post the picture lol

Ferredoxin4:

Or you should graph them. Using test points here would take too long as the discontinuity is really small and hard to pinpoint with a test point.

Ferredoxin4:

sure

Ballery1:

Ballery1:

before, everytime i plugged in *-5^2/3* i'd get an error lol

Ferredoxin4:

Calculations are correct, but using test points for these types of complex functions would take too long just saying. Also if there's a discontinuity, you won't be able to pinpoint it with test points.

Ballery1:

do i need to buy a better calculator or something?? to be able to get the *y* values faster?

Ferredoxin4:

Do you have a graphing calculator? It would help you tons to find the domain and range. Otherwise, you'd need to use calculus.

Ballery1:

i dont wanna buy a fancy TI tho. cuz the uni wont let me use it in midterm and finals...sooo

Ferredoxin4:

Do they allow a TI-83/84

Ferredoxin4:

It's a pretty basic graphing calculator

Ballery1:

pff, they won't even let me enter college with that calculator mate

Ballery1:

TI-83 or TI-84??? u can literally graph anything on those things

Ballery1:

weight, i have more questions. i'll be back in 2 minutes. gotta finish this question :)

Ferredoxin4:

sure

Ballery1:

this is the graph of that function. https://www.desmos.com/calculator/xno3esxjcq

Ballery1:

can u see it?

Ballery1:

So the domain is all real numbers?

Ferredoxin4:

Yes.

Ballery1:

What about range? All real numbers except y<0

Ballery1:

Sorry y has to be greater than 0

Ferredoxin4:

Correct but y≥0

Ferredoxin4:

0 is inclusive

Ballery1:

Yes my bad. I’m doing it with u on the fly

Ferredoxin4:

Just saying, using test points won't always work. For example, if you get a question like: \[\sqrt{x^2 + 1/3}\] There would be a discontinuity

Ferredoxin4:

sure

Ballery1:

I actually do have questions like that and even more funnier looking stuff

Ferredoxin4:

okay, yes here you would then need to know asymptotes and discontinuities of functions.

Ferredoxin4:

Testpoints don't always work.

Ferredoxin4:

Because there might be a discontinuity all the way at x=928, for example

Ballery1:

So what variables in the numerator and denominator decide where the asymptote(s) and discontinuities r

Ballery1:

So for this question...

Ballery1:

|dw:1560610500842:dw|

Ferredoxin4:

I'll explain:

Ferredoxin4:

For that function, there is no discontinuity

Ballery1:

I know I can’t plugin 2 into the equation...cuz that’d make everything equal to zero

Ferredoxin4:

Just because the output is 0 doesn't mean it's a discontinuity.

Ballery1:

So for that reason, we have a restriction in the range? Where y can’t be bigger or equal to zero.

Ballery1:

Yes, I should not have used that question for discont and asymp

Ferredoxin4:

For this question, you were correct. I'm just saying for hypothetical scenarios if you get a question that has a discontinuity, test points don't work. There's a w

Ferredoxin4:

There's a way* to calculate asymptotes and discontinuities. Do you know them?

Ferredoxin4:

1 attachment
Ballery1:

i think I do but wait...I have a question. When we plugging zero into the function..the whole function collapses. How do I know it’s for the domain or range....if I were to do it really fast

Ballery1:

I do have asymptotic and restriction questions ...but i’ll Ask u those later..

Ballery1:

I can’t make out what u just sent me...it all blurry

Ferredoxin4:

For domain it's the set of x values. As long as you yield an output that is not n/0, the input exists. For range, it's simply knowing the minimum or maximum and going to their approaches

Ballery1:

Anything n/0 is undefined..got it

Ferredoxin4:

Yes. Otherwise, the input is considered in the domain.

Ferredoxin4:

Also, if the radicand is less than 0, it is also imaginary and thus undefined.

Ferredoxin4:

ie \[\sqrt{x-4}\] If you get a value under 4, you'll get a negative radicand. That's why the domain is x≥4. Range would be y≥0. You can use some testpoints here. Also, it would be best to know the behavior of these functions. Square root functions normally have a range greater than or equal to 0 unless it is transformed by f(x+h)+k

Ballery1:

So if a function has a y value for any x value, it’s automatically in the horizontal domain? So if there’s no value for x...let’s say at f(2) of some function gives me an error ....means there’s an asymptote

Ballery1:

Yes I agree with the root question...where x has to be bigger than 4 bcuz u can’t take the root of negative numbers

Ballery1:

So does that mean I need to remember than root function graphs look like? Omg ok

Ferredoxin4:

Discontinuity, not asymptote. There's a thin line between the two. Discontinuity is a specific point, asymptote is more like a region or line.

Ferredoxin4:

And some discontinuities are removable, which is why you should know to manipulate functions

Ballery1:

Yes. Like in limits...I got it

Ferredoxin4:

It's best to know the basic look of them so you can figure out if the function is transformed. Then you wouldn't need to do any work.

Ferredoxin4:

And no, not for all root functions, I'm just saying for like square roots. I myself don't know the behavior for cube root functions and others

Ferredoxin4:

Yes, in limits

Ballery1:

I’m working on a new question. I know wanted to see what it’s like to manually solve for the y value for this function. Picture coming soon

Ballery1:

Ferredoxin4:

Bad idea to use test points here. Just look at the denominator and you can get a discontinuity.

Ferredoxin4:

asymptote*

Ballery1:

i just wanted to test my algebra tho :)

Ferredoxin4:

oh ok

Ballery1:

i think the denominator has to do with vertical asymptote? O-o

Ferredoxin4:

Correct but then there's a vertical stretch in the numerator

Ballery1:

hoesntly i havent touched math in years... im just guessing/recalling to the best of my abilities.. plz dont judge..

Ballery1:

k so before we figure out the domain and range of the following function. And the vertical and horizontal asymptotes ...can u plz check my work real quiff? let me draw :)

Ballery1:

|dw:1560615767676:dw|

Ferredoxin4:

sqrt(-4) is imaginary and thus undefined, you can't factor out a -2.

Ballery1:

Oki 😐

Ferredoxin4:

That's why x=-3 for f(x) is undefined.

Ferredoxin4:

You can't solve any further

Ballery1:

oki dokie

Ballery1:

so the vertical asypmtote is at 1?

Ballery1:

since 1 will make the denominator equal to 0

Ferredoxin4:

correct

Ballery1:

any anything divided by 0 is error

Ferredoxin4:

That makes the domain (1, infinity)

Ballery1:

and for the horizontal asymptote... we look at the ratios of the leading degrees. wait, let me draw

Ballery1:

|dw:1560616332648:dw|

Ferredoxin4:

yes correct

Ballery1:

wait.... i need to show u the graph... :O

Ferredoxin4:

but it would be an oblique asymptote

Ballery1:

1 attachment
Ballery1:

watinda heck is this?

Ballery1:

the horizontal asymptotoe is more like at 1 tho

Ferredoxin4:

No, if the degree in numerator is > than denominator's, it's oblique/slant asymptote. It would be difficult to calculate here.

Ballery1:

but i just watched the video on youtbe and he said it's *0* tho *~*

Ballery1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKwc0sxLRTs stop at 2:54

Ballery1:

omg i mixed up... it's the opposite here. we have a bigger degree in the numerator than the denominator. sorry *~*

Ballery1:

omg he said, if the degree of the numerator is bigger than the denominator, then there's no HA

Ballery1:

at 5:35

Ferredoxin4:

yes it would be oblique, but in this case it can't be calculated as all the possible lines would be tangent

Ferredoxin4:

so the horizontal and oblique asymptote is null

Ballery1:

so what do we write? 0?

Ferredoxin4:

you don't need to write or just say null

Ballery1:

oki dokie :)

Ballery1:

k the domain is all real numbers, but x has to be bigger or equal to 1

Ferredoxin4:

yes

Ballery1:

as for the range, it'd be all real numbers except, y can't be equal to or less the 4

Ballery1:

okie dokie :)

Ferredoxin4:

yes

Ferredoxin4:

It can be 4, actually.

Ballery1:

wait, what do u get when you plug in x = 2

Ballery1:

let's do it here actually. let me draw

Ballery1:

|dw:1560617738594:dw|

Ballery1:

Ok, it can be 4

Ferredoxin4:

D: \[X \in \mathbb{R}, x>1 \] R: \[y \in \mathbb{R}, y≥4\]

Ferredoxin4:

yes

Ferredoxin4:

I think I helped enough, someone else can take over or just post another q as I have to go.

Ballery1:

thanks bye

Ballery1:

this is a rational function and i need to find the domain and range of the function.

Ballery1:

|dw:1560626310596:dw|

Ballery1:

I’m trying to factor this bad boy for the past 3 minutes...let me post

Ballery1:

|dw:1560626414349:dw|

Ferredoxin4:

So you can't factor the denominator because it is not following the rule (a-b)^2 unless you use complex numbers. Do you know how to do that? Besides, you wouldn't need to factor the denominator.

Ferredoxin4:

You can't factor it using real numbers/variables.

Ballery1:

Okie dokie

Ferredoxin4:

If you factor it, the expression would look something like: (x-i)(x+i) where i=sqrt(-1)

Ballery1:

Soooo how do we go about finding the vertical asymptote?

Ferredoxin4:

There is no vertical asymptote.

Ballery1:

Yuhh, that’s what I get ;/

Ferredoxin4:

I mean there is, but it is imaginary and we cannot graph imaginary scalar or vector quantities on the cartesian plane.

Ballery1:

But how do I make myself sure that there isn’t one?

Ferredoxin4:

And asymptotes only fall under the real number category, so we might as well say that this function has no vertical asymptote.

Ferredoxin4:

So If a variable in the denominator has the ability to make the denominator 0 at any given point, there is a vertical asymptote. If the variable in the denominator has imaginary/complex solutions, there is no vertical asymptote.

Ferredoxin4:

No. Let's say a denominator for any given rational equation/expression is x^2 +4. Can you tell me the roots for x?

Ballery1:

So when I can’t factor the deno, do I just assume there r no asymptotes?

Ferredoxin4:

Basically for vertical asymptotes: 1. Look at the denominator only. Set the polynomial in the denominator to 0. Solve for the variable as you normally would using algebra. 2. If you get real solutions, there is a vertical asymptote and it would be that solution. 3. If you get imaginary solutions, there is no vertical asymptote.

Ballery1:

I can try to factor that...weight, let me draw it out..one sec

Ferredoxin4:

No, just because you cannot factor it does not mean there is no solution. It just means the polynomial is 'prime' or cannot be factored. The decision between no asymptotes and asymptotes is decided if there is a real or imaginary number.

Ballery1:

|dw:1560626969968:dw|

Ballery1:

Okie dokie. I’ll note that down. Good point tho.

Ferredoxin4:

Correct but you don't need to factor. You can if you want. But what I would look for is a way to see how to isolate the variable. When you do that, there would be a negative number over a square root, which cannot be graphed.

Ballery1:

Yes yes yes that’s I left it...

Ballery1:

Brb, let me include that in my notes

Ferredoxin4:

Sure

Ballery1:

As for the horizontal asymptote....we know that the leading highest power in the numerator is much smaller than the leading power in the denominator...thus...the horizontal asymptote is y=0

Ferredoxin4:

I'd just like to add on a point, though. In some cases, you can use manipulation and remove the imaginary component to the denominator and find an asymptote/discontinuity. Similar to limits.

Ballery1:

I don’t need to lern that ....

Ferredoxin4:

if numerator<denominator then y=0 numerator > denominator no HA. but there is an oblique numerator = Denominator then HA = ratio of leading coefficients.

Ballery1:

|dw:1560627588236:dw|

Ferredoxin4:

correct

Ballery1:

Let me actually include that in my notes too...brb

Ballery1:

Back...so the domain is all real numbers

Ferredoxin4:

In this case? Yes

Ballery1:

And since there’s no V.A., ........did u see the graph tho?

Ballery1:

It doesn’t go above 2 I believe

Ballery1:

Wait.. le me draw

Ballery1:

|dw:1560628157909:dw|

Ballery1:

So how do we figure out the point of vertex?

Ferredoxin4:

Sorry I have to go i can help later.

Ballery1:

Okie dokie. Have a good one

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