Question

Hello, can someone help me out with lewis structures, my dutch book says that the lewis structure of sulfate ion is: http://gyazo.com/3b9e246a2b60ace57adaf1537cc4431f.png .
The thing im confused about in the above structure is the fact they didnt even indicate the charges for the S and other 2 O's!

While my English book says we use the following lewis notation since its has the lowest magnitude of (formal) charges:
http://gyazo.com/2a936aad8d85f0ead1a1fd6ff1d5496c.png

Im really confused with this, because I would like to know which is the real deal. Can someone pls help me out?
Thanks

Answer 1

in the first image the charges \(are\) indicated, in the [ ] the charges are on the outside, like this \([ \;\;\;]^{2-}\)

Answer 2

:D I mean the difference between 1 & 2:

1) http://gyazo.com/3b9e246a2b60ace57adaf1537cc4431f.png
2) http://gyazo.com/2a936aad8d85f0ead1a1fd6ff1d5496c.png

Answer 3

to be honest i've never seen it drawn with dative bonds, but to my knowledge sulfur can have up to 6 bonds because it can access low energy d orbitals. maybe @Frostbite can offer us some further insight!

Answer 4

What ever it is I'm tired and can't help! T_T

Answer 5

yes I know this book makes me go crazy, but its how we were taught chem in Belgium :p

Answer 6

You are confused about what notation you should use?

Answer 7

yes, I would like to know what the real lewis notation is 1) or 2) Cause the dutch science moderators say its the one with single dative bonds, and the american chemists say its the one with double bonds.

Answer 8

Can I please know which notation you used in highschool Frostbite?

Answer 9

Well I don't know if @aaronq can agree to this, but:
A REAL Lewis structure would be the one to the left, however it it more appropriate to use the structure to the right as it then take into account that the charges are not localized (we can show this using resonance structures and evaluate their contribution to the real molecule)

Answer 10

Same principal goes for pyrophosphate.

Answer 11

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/Pyrophosphate_anion.png

Answer 12

lol Frostbite :D but im not asking whether the left or right structure is the one used, they are the same. Im asking whether you used 1) or 2) in highschool:

1) http://gyazo.com/3b9e246a2b60ace57adaf1537cc4431f.png
2) http://gyazo.com/2a936aad8d85f0ead1a1fd6ff1d5496c.png

Answer 13

Both :)

Answer 14

so you have really seen both double and single bonds in the sulfate ion in highschool in Denmark? :o

Answer 15

the bonds with the arrows (in the first image) are not single bonds, they're dative bonds.

Answer 16

I look up in C. E. Housecroft and see what she say, but 2) is the most used for me.

Answer 17

those are single dative bonds :o, they are not double, dative means one atom gives 1 electron pair away. I dont think dative bonds are the same as double bonds?!

Answer 18

sorry you're right. Though, i don't think they're considered the same as single bonds, since the electrons both come from the ligand.

Answer 19

Can I please know which one you have used in highschool?

Answer 20

i've never seen the one with the coordinate bond, only the double bonds.

Answer 21

Sorry now when I also read a bit about it I also agree. (had to understand what a dative bond even was) there was no translation in Danish.

Answer 22

ow ok thanks!! Weird that they use a dative bond here. I will use 2) for now since most people on the internet tell me its 2)

Answer 23

I forgot to ask why in the first lewis structure: 1) http://gyazo.com/3b9e246a2b60ace57adaf1537cc4431f.png the formal charges of the other 2 O's and S are NOT indicated! Can someone help me with why that is?

Answer 24

Sulfur has a charge of \(2^-\) .

Answer 25

I know this : 1) http://gyazo.com/3b9e246a2b60ace57adaf1537cc4431f.png notation isnt used much, but in belgium it is used so I wonder why (youre right) they dont put 2- for sulfur & -1 for the other 2 oxygens in : 1) http://gyazo.com/3b9e246a2b60ace57adaf1537cc4431f.png. ?

Answer 26

you're asking why they didn't write the formal charges?

Answer 27

yes aaronq, they did only write the charges for 2 O's :(

Answer 28

i'm really not sure. If i was you i wouldn't even worry about it (unless your teacher is drawing them specifically in this way) because i don't think it's more accurate in representing reality or that it is more beneficial in understanding the concept.

Answer 29

If you still wanna know, you should ask the person who gave you that picture.

Answer 30

ok thanks for the advice arronq. I really appreciate it :)

Answer 31

no problem, dude