Question

Giving out Answers & Code of Conduct?

Answer 1

The CoC says:

Give Help, Not Answers
I will encourage and guide those needing help, and not just give them an answer

OpenStudy values the Learning process - not the ‘Give you an answer’ process
Don’t post only answers - guide the asker to a solution.
Have homework problems? We can help you - as long as you are looking to learn how to get your solution (and not just the answer).

It says 'not JUST the answer' and 'not JUST give them an answer'.

That means we can still give them the answer if we give them the explanation on how to do it, right?

@amistre64 Says that we have to guide them to the answer and NOT TO GIVE THE ANSWER AT ALL.

Can we still give answers with explanation?

Answer 2

@ganeshie8 @Hero @Preetha

Answer 3

Any mod will tell you to give the explanation first then the answer. That's usually how I do it with history questions because there no real way of hinting to what the answer is without giving them keywords in the answer.

Answer 4

Can we still give answers with explanation? Or do we have to 'guide them' like @amistre64 tells us?

Answer 5

They won't care about the explanation, so you don't give the answer before the explanation. You have to explain to them how to do the problem, and see if they can find out the answer themselves after you tell them how to do it.

Answer 6

@Joel_the_boss I know..you can guide people with some questions in Mathematics..but sometimes not on others.

Answer 7

I'm sure it's 'best' to guide people, but I still want to know.

Answer 8

How to Help Users on Open Study:

1. Ask the user questions to figure out how much they know already

2. Explain concepts using general definitions, terms, theory.

3. Give an example of how to solve the problem

4. If the user doesn't understand it, explain it using a different method or approach.

5. Guide the user by giving helpful hints, formulas, and suggestions at each step.

6. If the user provides his or her own answer, ask them to explain how they arrived at their result or ask the user to post their steps.

7. Avoid giving the answer. Remember, the goal of this site is to help students study.

Answer 9

Then why does your Code-of-Conduct say not to JUST give out answers? Why don't you update it if you think you should only GUIDE them to the answer? It doesn't help that your Code-of-Conduct doesn't say to do that. @Hero

Answer 10

The Code of Conduct is meant to be used as a guide. In the moment, when you are trying to figure out the best way to help a student, keep the CoC in mind, but for the most part, common sense applies. Use the most appropriate approach and your own judgement in each case. How you respond to a question should consider such things as what is being asked, how much the student knows or doesn't know, his or her willingness to learn, how much time you have to contribute etc. Understanding such things will come in time with practice.

Answer 11

That doesn't answer my question..

Why won't you update the CoC?

Answer 12

For updates to the CoC, consult Preetha

Answer 13

.....

You're a moderator..you should be able to get to her easier..she almost never comes when you tag her..

Answer 14

I will suggest this to her at our next OSSF meeting @iGreen

Answer 15

The CoC might need updating. This has been discussed before. However, I'm not the one who is interested in updating the CoC. I have many other interests of mine concerning site updates. If you want to help improve things on Open Study, you have to make your own proposals.

Answer 16

Well shouldn't this be the most important since the CoC is telling users what NOT to do when helping people?

If the purpose of the site is to help people and your CoC tells people the wrong thing to do..then what's more important than changing it?

Answer 17

OSSF meeting? @Joel_the_boss

Answer 18

@iGreen I can tell you more about the meeting but you must join OSSF. Sorry but preetha told us not to say a lot of information about or meetings.

Answer 19

How do you join..?

Answer 20

Email a photo ID to ambassador.admin@openstudy.com And say its for OSSF registration.

Answer 21

@Hero Do you have an answer to that?

Answer 22

I know there are a lot of bugs in the site and they're annoying..but they don't look as important as this..

Answer 23

any explanation which does not involve the askers participation, but does all the work/thinking for them ... is nothing more than a direct answer. if doesnt matter if your explanation is 3 pages long and the most indepth textual treatise on the planet; without the askers participation all they do is say ok, take the final results, and move on to ask the same exact question all over again.

and then we tend to got those who respond with: its D, do you want to know why?

Answer 24

@TuringTest @Callisto @phi @ParthKohli @Compassionate @ganeshie8

I want to hear all of your opinions.

Answer 25

At least UPDATE the CoC if this is all of your opinions..

Answer 26

That's what "guiding" a user to the answer means. Guiding someone is not doing their work for them. It means that you should show them the path to their answer in all ways possible.

Answer 27

So you're saying that we can give the answer..but have an explanation? @ParthKohli

Answer 28

No. I'm saying that guiding someone means that you have to show someone the path to an answer, and not teleport them to the answer itself.

Answer 29

IF the posting is say a month old, then a direct answer doesnt seem so counterintuitive since the real time aspect of the site is not in effect. but people tend to respond to active questions in order to get the coveted useless medal :)

Answer 30

'direct with explanantion' that is

Answer 31

One more thing: the CoC is also just a guide. It is not a holy edict in which every word literally means what it says. Unlike the law, the CoC is not limited to itself. It's just a simple document that is human-friendly and gives you a fair idea of the goals of the site and your responsibilities as a member.

Answer 32

I agree with the points both @amistre64 and @Hero have made. I generally tell people not to give the final answer, because far too often someone will post questions, and another user will give a thoughtful explanation, and then the question is immediately closed with the asker obviously just copying the work and asking the next question on their worksheet. If I see this, the only way I can intervene is to threaten users with a ban if they give the final answer, explanation or not, otherwise the process will just repeat.

There are some cases where the asker has many questions on a subject though, in which case I won't bite your head off if (along with helping the asker come to the conclusion) you make a final correction to their work (i.e. "don't forget the +C"), but that should be done as sparingly as possible.

If the wording of the CoC seems to vague for people to interpret it in the way I described, perhaps it is due for some fine tuning.

Answer 33

The CoC is misguiding people. It did to me, I can tell you that. So you guys should change it..

Answer 34

Saying the CoC is 'just a guide' makes it sound like it doesn't mean anything..also how are you supposed to get 'guide people to the answer and don't give the answer' with 'don't JUST give the answer'?

Answer 35

As amistre said, an answer with an explanation is also treated as an answer.

Answer 36

Yes, I have seen that many times. I tell people how to do the process..then they ask a question just like it..even though the explanation should have told them how to get the answer to the next similar question.

Answer 37

To be clear, moderators do not have the power to change the code of conduct. The best we can do is try to get Preetha's attention on the matter so a discussion can be had. This thread accomplishes the discussion aspect, you can only ask us to flag her attention to it.

Answer 38

Okay. But changing the CoC probably won't do much..because people hardly ever read it when they join anyway..but telling people about the CoC helps.

Answer 39

interaction is key. if all the asker says is 'idk whats the answer' then this isnt much interaction. if they say 'idk' you can prod them to make an attempt and correct them as needed. but interaction is the key.

Answer 40

Also..what's all this about "don't help people with their tests"?

Answer 41

Almost every question posted on this site is a question copy & pasted from someone's online school.

Answer 42

really?

Answer 43

if people are taking a test, then it is their own assessment, and not yours to do

Answer 44

If you google their questions you'll see other one's just like it..which means other people had the question too..which means it had to have came from their school.

Answer 45

connections, connexus, K12, FLVCS, etc all have made their intentions clear that they do not want their students using this site to do their tests

Answer 46

*FLVS

Answer 47

our lack of knowing who is cheating is another reason why we dont just give out full explanantions with an answer

Answer 48

lol, the C was just begging to be used

Answer 49

Lol

Answer 50

On my online school they don't even want you to go into your lesson and look for the answer..but there would be no point in Open Study if everyone couldn't post a question from their school..because that's what 90% of the people on here do..

Answer 51

gotta love the posts tha tsay: anyone have the answers to my test?

Answer 52

Lol, yup. That just proves people don't read the CoC.

They say stuff like: "Can anyone help with my test". Etc.

Answer 53

If you have evidence that what they are posting is a test, that is definitely something you should report. Unfortunately you often just see copy-pasted questions that could be part of a homework assignment or study pack, on which we are allowed to help. I will sometimes try to trick askers into revealing if it's a test with a silly question like "what class is this test for?", but I'm sure many slip through the cracks. The best you can do is try to minimize such abuse by not helping on what appear to be tests.

Answer 54

'not helping on what appear to be tests'

Everything appears to be from tests..I take an online school(FLVS) if I just google'd one of the questions on one of my tests..there would be results from Open Study.

Answer 55

Also, I see questions on here from classes I've taken on FLVS.

And I see people saying: Oh, you take connections too? etc.

Answer 56

Well don't help on those. Just because the majority is cheating doesn't make it less illegal. Perhaps you should use your eye for such things to flag questions as being from tests.
I admit that I don't google every question I see, but if something peaks my suspicion I will do something of the like, and you should do the same. If you can show that such a high percentage of all questions asked are from tests that may make admin make some major changes to the site. They may be unaware of the extent of the problem.

Answer 57

Major changes like what? Banning 90% of the users?

Answer 58

Open Study wouldn't exist without online schools like FLVS.

Answer 59

Anyone have the answers to connexus geometry final???????///?/?/?/?://?//.?

Answer 60

Not sure, but it's worth knowing. I'd try to get a method developed to identify them and start banning them in droves, sure. If it's really 90% then I'd say the site *has* to change drastically to survive.

Answer 61

cheaters need to have an A next to their usernames :)

Answer 62

So long as the school doesn't prohibit using the site and they aren't doing a test, it's fine. If by banning all people doing tests and using the site against the rules of their school this site can't survive then it was doomed to begin with.

Answer 63

xD

Answer 64

Cheater here - can confirm.

Answer 65

Open Study just wouldn't be here without all these online schools..that's why so many people go on here.

Answer 66

one thing to note, is that openstudy is not here to assume a question is being asked with ill intent. but we are not to bury our heads in the sand and pretend it doesnt happen. hence the need to curb answer giving.

Answer 67

study should occur before the tests, and then there should be ample time to explore what the asker needs to understand the problems. so dragging out the solution is a good way to deter people from using this site as a free answering service.

Answer 68

By tests do we mean Final Exams or Module Exams? Or do we also mean small 5-10 question quiz's?

Answer 69

all

Answer 70

since im just giving you an answer in this thread, am i guilty of a direct answer? hmmm

Answer 71

I know there's a problem with Final's and Module's, because the teacher's don't want to help you and they don't want you to go to the lesson. You're supposed to study for them. But they'll help for small quiz's, and they don't care if you go around in the lesson..so what's so wrong about helping people on quiz's(besides giving direct answers)? It's just like being a teacher..

Answer 72

OS doesnt mind helping people understand a question and guide them thru a solution process that is based in the askers knowledge and understanding. we are here to help people learn. the intent of the asker is on their own shoulders and we are to be wise in our interactions so that we are not simply helping others cheat.

Answer 73

There are few FLVS staff that monitor internet for questions posted from quizzes/test.
mods get messages like this every now and then from FLVS teachers.

```
Please block/remove the account of *******
She has posted all five of her test questions from her FLVS test online in the past two hours and is in direct violation of OS and FLVS code of conduct.
Thank you for your help.
```

The main issue I guess is with the school honor code and cheating in exams is not a small problem...

Answer 74

No, it's not.

Answer 75

Well a lot of users who have a high SS just give away answers..

Answer 76

@TheSmartOne Yeah, like @gorv .

Answer 77

I ban high-level users faster than low level ones because they are obviously strongly abusing the system and should know better.

Answer 78

Lol, I warned @gorv and he said: "Thanks for telling me I didn't know."

Answer 79

@satellite73 gives them out sometimes too. And he's the site's only user with a SS of 100(?)

Answer 80

i give them out sometimes ....

Answer 81

when i think the asker has the understanding, i tend to ramble thru a solution, but still ask them for the final results

Answer 82

I already told @amistre64 about it.

Answer 83

sometimes i give a direct answer for hard questions/challenges if i know the asker... i think a direct answer is okay if it doesn't bypass the other person from learning/trying on his own

Answer 84

Isn't it also good if you know the asker will ACTUALLY look into your explanation and find out how to do it?

Answer 85

again its somewhat subjective and you need to decide it for yourself

Answer 86

if you dont give a final result, then hopefully they CAN look at it and find out the solution :)

Answer 87

^

Answer 88

@iGreen @AnswerMyQuestions ....i ans directly to some acc.to level of the Q and user's understanding ....i dont through them ans ...dont be jealous of my 99...i never take them to final ans until it is required

Answer 89

i dont do like you @AnswerMyQuestions ...who just type ""........."" ...or meaning less stuff just to inc ..the no of Q answered..i take the asker to the last step atleast

Answer 90

and @iGreen

Answer 91

wow

Answer 92

xD

Answer 93

i think u didnt check the Q correctly and what i wrote

Answer 94

IN CONCLUSION

i. @poopsiedoodle was sarcastic and added nothing to the discussion!
ii. @amistre64 believes that Ambassadors bear the Mark of the Beast
iii. @amistre64 and @ganeshie8 agree that it's sometimes okay to give direct answers
iv. @iGreen was told to ask Preetha about changing the Code of Conduct
iv @TuringTest and @Hero agree there are no exceptions to cheating

THANK YOU EVERYONE