Question

WHich ion, chlorate or chlorite would you predict to have a larger O-CI-O bond angle? Briefly justify why

Answer 1

any attempts to draw out the lewis structures/geometries? as a hint chlorate has one more oxygen than chlorite, what would that do to the bond angle?

Answer 2

Would that bring the steric number

Answer 3

Be the **

Answer 4

:S

Answer 5

yeah, if you want to formally calculate the geometries then sure you can calculate the steric number

Answer 6

Okay so it woul be chorite then?

Answer 7

because its steric numner would be 4

Answer 8

hm. i'd have to think a bit more about this.

Answer 9

since chlorate is trigonal pyramidal (3 bonds, 1 lone pair) and chlorite is bent (2 bonds 2 lone pairs, chlorite acually has the slightly smaller bond angle contrary to what I expected

Answer 10

it's really close though and could honestly go either way tbh

Answer 11

so chlorate has the larger bond angle then

Answer 12

yeah, those are my thoughts (I should probably double check w/ someone though)

Answer 13

@lowkey

Answer 14

meugh

different sources are giving me different values for the bond angles

Answer 15

my conclusion is that electron pairs cause more electron repulsion than electronegative atoms, so chlorite with 2 lone pairs and 2 bonds has a smaller angle than chlorate which has 1 lone pair and three bonded atoms

Answer 16

DO you want to see the sheet my professor provided>

Answer 17

sure

Answer 18

yeah I was thinking it would be like that

in this case both of the compounds are classified as <109.5 so your sheet doesn't really distinguish them properly

Answer 19

OKAY SO just stick to the original answer

Answer 20

yeah, I believe chlorate would have the larger bond angle

Answer 21

oh

well, you just gotta fill in the appropriate # of missing bonds or lone pairs so that each atom has its octet filled

Answer 22

on the actual structure right?

Answer 23

yeah, this might take me a bit tbh

Answer 24

as a hunch the -1 formal charge would end up being on one of the oxygens and the rest would have formal charges of 0

Answer 25

wait so I do it in the a section I'm cofused

Answer 26

and if i do it on the structure where ? :S

Answer 27

I think so, you would just draw extra bonds on the structure and extra lone pairs on the atoms

Answer 28

something like that

Answer 29

the one one the left is tripping me up b/c the C would almost certainly never be on the left side of this atom

Answer 30

its only gen chem so maybe not thinking about all the rules and just kind odf simplifying it you know

Answer 31

its really just general chemistry nothing advanced

Answer 32

I can't get the formal charges to sum up to -1 for some reason >>

Answer 33

Me either

Answer 34

wth

Answer 35

the triple bond ? :S

Answer 36

I just checked total # of bonds and since we have an odd # of electrons there may be a lone electron somewhere

Answer 37

Ont he nitrogen

Answer 38

its octet isn't full yet :S

Answer 39

nvm it is :/

Answer 40

what about on the O1

Answer 41

well using process of elimination

left structure:

the bond between C1 and N1 is probably a triple bond, making the bond between N1 and N2 a single bond
giving N2 one lone pair gives N2 a formal charge of 0
then just fill up the electrons on the oxygens giving them both a formal charge of -1

it's not the right formal charge but it's the best I came up with

Answer 42

right structure:

give N1 a lone pair and triple bond N1 with C1
single bond C1 with N2, give N2 a lone pair, and single bond N2 with the other oxygens, giving the oxygens a formal charge of -1

Answer 43

then for b you'd just calculate the formal charges

then for c) you'd circle the structure that gives EN atoms negative formal charges and electropositive atoms positive formal charges

putting carbon on the left side forces it to have a negative formal charge so structure 1 is very unfavorable

Answer 44

idk if it's a typo on the worksheet but after doing the work I have a hunch the overall formal charge was meant to be -2 not -1

Answer 45

So that for the first part

Answer 46

yeah just don't forget the lone pairs on both O1's, you want a full octet

Answer 47

just one lone pair?

Answer 48

so two dots

Answer 49

oxygen requires a full octet so it must have a total of 4 pairs of electrons, either bonded or lone pairs

so for O1 you already have 2 bonds, how many lone pairs do you need to fill the octet?

Answer 50

2

Answer 51

2 bonds are 4

Answer 52

good

what about the other O1? it only has 1 bond so how many Lone pairs does it still need?

Answer 53

so four more so 2

Answer 54

4

Answer 55

hm, close, the other O1 only needs 3 lone pairs to get a full octet

Answer 56

yeah i miscounted

Answer 57

almost just a few issues

Structure 1:
C1 has valency of 4; 1 lone pair; 3 bonds --> formal charge = ?
N1 has valency 5; 0 lone pairs, 4 bonds ---> formal charge = ?
N2: same logic as N1

if you want to give both oxygens a formal charge of -1 they both need to be single bonds

Structure 2:
C1: valency of 4; 4 bonds; 0 lone pairs --> formal charge = ?

Answer 58

C1-1
N1-3

Answer 59

N1: valency of 5 - 4 lone pairs = +1 formal charge

Answer 60

on the left structure if you give both oxygens a single bond then the N2 formal charge becomes 0 (3 bonds, 2 lone electrons)

Answer 61

and for c i circled the right one

Answer 62

structure 1:
C1 has a -1 formal charge (valency 4, 3 bonds, 2 lone pair electrons)
structure 2:
C1 has 4 bonds and its valency is 4, so 4 - 4 = 0 formal charge

everything else is ok

Answer 63

and i circled structure 2 for c

Answer 64

thanks voca =)

Answer 65

yes that's good

Answer 66

idk if these are the resonances they want but that's my best attempt

Answer 67

Thank you i bet this is right