Why do people say "communism/socialism kills" when the majority of wars were the direct result of capitalism?

Question

MAGABACK · Answer

Communism/Socialism take the rights of the people away. As we see in history, no country that has been either of those things have ever gone right. As on the other hand, capitalism has always worked. For example, the U.S, who is a capitalist society.

I think you were wrong by stating that wars are started by capitalist societies, and is an inaccurate claim.

gelphielvr · Answer

@magaback wrote:

Communism/Socialism take the rights of the people away. As we see in history, no country that has been either of those things have ever gone right. As on the other hand, capitalism has always worked. For example, the U.S, who is a capitalist society. I think you were wrong by stating that wars are started by capitalist societies, and is an inaccurate claim.

Is China not one of the most successful countries in the world right now? Also WW1 was the result of militarism and imperialization which are inherently capitalist.

MAGABACK · Answer

@gelphielvr wrote:

@magaback wrote:

Communism/Socialism take the rights of the people away. As we see in history, no country that has been either of those things have ever gone right. As on the other hand, capitalism has always worked. For example, the U.S, who is a capitalist society. I think you were wrong by stating that wars are started by capitalist societies, and is an inaccurate claim.

Is China not one of the most successful countries in the world right now? Also WW1 was the result of militarism and imperialization which are inherently capitalist.

No, China is using child labor, so no, they are not the most successful country rn. It is the U.S. And it militarism and imperialism do u here the word capitalism? No.

gelphielvr · Answer

Also I would disagree that capitalism always works, 11% of Americans are currently living in poverty. Also the UAE another capitalist country actively uses slavery to benefit their economy

gelphielvr · Answer

@magaback wrote:

@gelphielvr wrote:

@magaback wrote:

Communism/Socialism take the rights of the people away. As we see in history, no country that has been either of those things have ever gone right. As on the other hand, capitalism has always worked. For example, the U.S, who is a capitalist society. I think you were wrong by stating that wars are started by capitalist societies, and is an inaccurate claim.

Is China not one of the most successful countries in the world right now? Also WW1 was the result of militarism and imperialization which are inherently capitalist.

No, China is using child labor, so no, they are not the most successful country rn. It is the U.S. And it militarism and imperialism do u here the word capitalism? No.

China is literally one of the most powerful countries in the world right now ..

gelphielvr · Answer

I'm not saying that socialism/communism don't have negative effects on people but I still think its odd to say that communism kills when people die of starvation and lack of healthcare in capitalist countries

toga · Answer

It's not necessarily that capitalism is bad; rather, it's the individuals leading the country who are the problem. Take Canada, for example. We have only experienced two civil wars and have participated in seven wars against other countries. Today, we are considered one of the safest countries in the world for everyone.

toga · Answer

@toga wrote:

It's not necessarily that capitalism is bad; rather, it's the individuals leading the country who are the problem. Take Canada, for example. We have only experienced two civil wars and have participated in seven wars against other countries. Today, we are considered one of the safest countries in the world for everyone.

This isn't biased or me doing off of what I have heard, either. I have lived in both countries for big chunks of my life, I know how each is from personal experience.

ihy · Answer

@toga wrote:

It's not necessarily that capitalism is bad; rather, it's the individuals leading the country who are the problem. Take Canada, for example. We have only experienced two civil wars and have participated in seven wars against other countries. Today, we are considered one of the safest countries in the world for everyone.

Ooh, I never thought of that tbh

toga · Answer

@ihy wrote:

@toga wrote:

It's not necessarily that capitalism is bad; rather, it's the individuals leading the country who are the problem. Take Canada, for example. We have only experienced two civil wars and have participated in seven wars against other countries. Today, we are considered one of the safest countries in the world for everyone.

Ooh, I never thought of that tbh

anything can turn bad if you let someone bad run it

ihy · Answer

@toga wrote:

@ihy wrote:

@toga wrote:

It's not necessarily that capitalism is bad; rather, it's the individuals leading the country who are the problem. Take Canada, for example. We have only experienced two civil wars and have participated in seven wars against other countries. Today, we are considered one of the safest countries in the world for everyone.

Ooh, I never thought of that tbh

anything can turn bad if you let someone bad run it

Indeed, that's a very true statement

gelphielvr · Answer

@toga wrote:

@ihy wrote:

@toga wrote:

It's not necessarily that capitalism is bad; rather, it's the individuals leading the country who are the problem. Take Canada, for example. We have only experienced two civil wars and have participated in seven wars against other countries. Today, we are considered one of the safest countries in the world for everyone.

Ooh, I never thought of that tbh

anything can turn bad if you let someone bad run it

couldn't you say the same thing about communism/socialism?

ihy · Answer

@gelphielvr wrote:

@toga wrote:

@ihy wrote:

@toga wrote:

It's not necessarily that capitalism is bad; rather, it's the individuals leading the country who are the problem. Take Canada, for example. We have only experienced two civil wars and have participated in seven wars against other countries. Today, we are considered one of the safest countries in the world for everyone.

Ooh, I never thought of that tbh

anything can turn bad if you let someone bad run it

couldn't you say the same thing about communism/socialism?

I mean, but did everyone who had a high position during communism and socialism make things bad though?

gelphielvr · Answer

@ihy wrote:

@gelphielvr wrote:

@toga wrote:

@ihy wrote:

@toga wrote:

It's not necessarily that capitalism is bad; rather, it's the individuals leading the country who are the problem. Take Canada, for example. We have only experienced two civil wars and have participated in seven wars against other countries. Today, we are considered one of the safest countries in the world for everyone.

Ooh, I never thought of that tbh

anything can turn bad if you let someone bad run it

couldn't you say the same thing about communism/socialism?

I mean, but did everyone who had a high position during communism and socialism make things bad though?

I'm gonna be honest I have no clue what you just said

ihy · Answer

@gelphielvr wrote:

@ihy wrote:

Lowk me neither ;-;

@gelphielvr wrote:

@toga wrote:

@ihy wrote:

@toga wrote:

It's not necessarily that capitalism is bad; rather, it's the individuals leading the country who are the problem. Take Canada, for example. We have only experienced two civil wars and have participated in seven wars against other countries. Today, we are considered one of the safest countries in the world for everyone.

Ooh, I never thought of that tbh

anything can turn bad if you let someone bad run it

couldn't you say the same thing about communism/socialism?

I mean, but did everyone who had a high position during communism and socialism make things bad though?

I'm gonna be honest I have no clue what you just said

toga · Answer

@gelphielvr wrote:

@toga wrote:

@ihy wrote:

@toga wrote:

It's not necessarily that capitalism is bad; rather, it's the individuals leading the country who are the problem. Take Canada, for example. We have only experienced two civil wars and have participated in seven wars against other countries. Today, we are considered one of the safest countries in the world for everyone.

Ooh, I never thought of that tbh

anything can turn bad if you let someone bad run it

couldn't you say the same thing about communism/socialism?

well yeah thats kinda what i just said anything means anything

gelphielvr · Answer

i think this drifted too far away from my original question .. I was just curious as to where the origin of that phrase comes from / why its so widely used

Sailor · Answer

@magaback wrote:

Communism/Socialism take the rights of the people away. As we see in history, no country that has been either of those things have ever gone right. As on the other hand, capitalism has always worked. For example, the U.S, who is a capitalist society. I think you were wrong by stating that wars are started by capitalist societies, and is an inaccurate claim.

Okay I'm gonna try my best to explain this based off of what I know, I apologize if I come off as "strange" or "doing too much" (and I might get my facts wrong, but if anything please be civil about pointing out any wrong facts) but lemme try to explain this. Most people don't know the textbook definition of communism, and it's still VERY clear that this is still an issue. Communism and Socialism both advocate for a classless society, however Communism aims for total communal ownership of all property whilst socialism advocates for allowing private property but turns means of production into communal ownership. Now as you say in history, yes, communism has been shown to go wrong due to a number of factors. However, that doesn't mean entirely that communism is a system that is "doomed to fail" right off the bat. Some communist societies did descend into a dictatorship, blah blah blah, that's something that is typically unpredictable because any type of system can descend into a dictatorship if the cards are played right. Yes, both system can limit individual rights. Now in terms of Capitalism, capitalism isn't even good in theory. While yes, capitalism does ensure private ownership of the means of production (which in some cases can be seen as good I guess? Varies on the person), there are so many things that are terrible about capitalism. Monopoly power, social benefits (and downsides as to how the environment and the citizens of said society/area are affected), and so on. Capitalist societies are also practically breeding grounds for inequality. As you can see with America, there are quite a few things that can be pointed out in terms of inequality. And we also have the cycle of economic issues where the economy is booming at one point and suddenly failing the next, which can lead to mass unemployment. Mmm. Capitalism. Not great for the people, but great for wealthy billionaires who want to exploit said people. Many examples of this in the present by the way. Now obviously, I'm no historian, I'm not always gonna be correct, this is just based off of what I've learned and I am doing my best to not get into certain topics that would cause arguments. In my opinion, wars can happen with any type of society because well.. humans are.. humans. I could go off about that but we'd be here for ages.

Sailor · Answer

And also, propaganda exists guys. Yes we can learn from history but its best to question it because its written by the winners. No one is immune to propaganda.

Sailor · Answer

@magaback wrote:

@gelphielvr wrote:

@magaback wrote:

Communism/Socialism take the rights of the people away. As we see in history, no country that has been either of those things have ever gone right. As on the other hand, capitalism has always worked. For example, the U.S, who is a capitalist society. I think you were wrong by stating that wars are started by capitalist societies, and is an inaccurate claim.

Is China not one of the most successful countries in the world right now? Also WW1 was the result of militarism and imperialization which are inherently capitalist.

No, China is using child labor, so no, they are not the most successful country rn. It is the U.S. And it militarism and imperialism do u here the word capitalism? No.

So I just gotta say, there are companies out there that utilize child labor that are in the United States. There's plenty of stuff out there on this, I'm not about to pull links but yeah.. It's not just one place. And considering the current state of the United States... I wouldn't say that we're gonna be the "most successful" for long. Could be wrong but you know.

Sailor · Answer

And the terms "communism" and "socialism" have been thrown around so much if I'm being honest.

Arriyanalol · Answer

Communism  has killed more people than capitalism can

MAGABACK · Answer

In communism and socialism you can't gain go up the food chain, while in capitalism you can.

Arriyanalol · Answer

@magaback wrote:

In communism and socialism you can't gain go up the food chain, while in capitalism you can.

lies

MAGABACK · Answer

@arriyanalol wrote:

@magaback wrote:

In communism and socialism you can't gain go up the food chain, while in capitalism you can.

lies

ur proof?

Arriyanalol · Answer

@magaback wrote:

@arriyanalol wrote:

@magaback wrote:

In communism and socialism you can't gain go up the food chain, while in capitalism you can.

lies

ur proof?

deez nuts

MAGABACK · Answer

ok very professional

gelphielvr · Answer

@magaback wrote:

In communism and socialism you can't gain go up the food chain, while in capitalism you can.

there's no point in having to climb a food chain in communism. Everybody has the same opportunities / resources available meaning that there's no class system

MAGABACK · Answer

@gelphielvr wrote:

@magaback wrote:

In communism and socialism you can't gain go up the food chain, while in capitalism you can.

there's no point in having to climb a food chain in communism. Everybody has the same opportunities / resources available meaning that there's no class system

The government at top, and then theirs everybody else suffering ;-;

gelphielvr · Answer

@magaback wrote:

@gelphielvr wrote:

@magaback wrote:

In communism and socialism you can't gain go up the food chain, while in capitalism you can.

there's no point in having to climb a food chain in communism. Everybody has the same opportunities / resources available meaning that there's no class system

The government at top, and then theirs everybody else suffering ;-;

have you read the communist manifesto by Karl Marx? He literally says that the government should not be above the people and be simply used to serve the people " The executive of the modern state is nothing but a committee for managing the common affairs of the whole bourgeoisie."

MAGABACK · Answer

@gelphielvr wrote:

@magaback wrote:

@gelphielvr wrote:

@magaback wrote:

In communism and socialism you can't gain go up the food chain, while in capitalism you can.

there's no point in having to climb a food chain in communism. Everybody has the same opportunities / resources available meaning that there's no class system

The government at top, and then theirs everybody else suffering ;-;

have you read the communist manifesto by Karl Marx? He literally says that the government should not be above the people and be simply used to serve the people " The executive of the modern state is nothing but a committee for managing the common affairs of the whole bourgeoisie."

I know it "should" but thats not how it works

Sailor · Answer

@magaback wrote:

@gelphielvr wrote:

@magaback wrote:

In communism and socialism you can't gain go up the food chain, while in capitalism you can.

there's no point in having to climb a food chain in communism. Everybody has the same opportunities / resources available meaning that there's no class system

The government at top, and then theirs everybody else suffering ;-;

While I see your point, I do think that this is what's happening with certain capitalist governments because of how things are going with that. The United States' government is on the top, and the people who aren't born into nepotism or have a lot of money are very much suffering at the moment. I'm not saying this to be funny, I'm just explaining the perspective here.

Sailor · Answer

Any type of society and/or government can be bad if people know how to make it bad, to be fair. You get the wrong person in power, they'll make it worse. I do recommend you attempt to do some research on Communism and Socialism. You're making good points but what you're saying is leaning into the borderline propaganda area imo.

MAGABACK · Answer

@sailor wrote:

@magaback wrote:

@gelphielvr wrote:

@magaback wrote:

In communism and socialism you can't gain go up the food chain, while in capitalism you can.

there's no point in having to climb a food chain in communism. Everybody has the same opportunities / resources available meaning that there's no class system

The government at top, and then theirs everybody else suffering ;-;

While I see your point, I do think that this is what's happening with certain capitalist governments because of how things are going with that. The United States' government is on the top, and the people who aren't born into nepotism or have a lot of money are very much suffering at the moment. I'm not saying this to be funny, I'm just explaining the perspective here.

But litterly anyone can get into the government, while in socialist and communist societies you can't.

MAGABACK · Answer

@sailor wrote:

Any type of society and/or government can be bad if people know how to make it bad, to be fair. You get the wrong person in power, they'll make it worse. I do recommend you attempt to do some research on Communism and Socialism. You're making good points but what you're saying is leaning into the borderline propaganda area imo.

bruh, I've done so much research it puts good research's to shame

MAGABACK · Answer

We also went over this in World History on top of that

Sailor · Answer

That is true, but you might be missing some perspectives here. If you think about it it's the same with other systems. Just saying. 🤷

MAGABACK · Answer

@sailor wrote:

That is true, but you might be missing some perspectives here. If you think about it it's the same with other systems. Just saying. 🤷

What do u mean by "perspectives?" I've lived in Poland and the U.S, went to Canada, Mexico, England, Ukraine and Germany. How many more "perspectives would I need?

MAGABACK · Answer

and Russia. Forgot that one

gelphielvr · Answer

@magaback wrote:

@sailor wrote:

That is true, but you might be missing some perspectives here. If you think about it it's the same with other systems. Just saying. 🤷

What do u mean by "perspectives?" I've lived in Poland and the U.S, went to Canada, Mexico, England, Ukraine and Germany. How many more "perspectives would I need?

maybe try reading communists works that go more thoroughly into the concepts?

Lui0210 · Answer

So basically, "I visited these places for a short time so I know everything about them"? Okay

MAGABACK · Answer

@gelphielvr wrote:

@magaback wrote:

@sailor wrote:

That is true, but you might be missing some perspectives here. If you think about it it's the same with other systems. Just saying. 🤷

What do u mean by "perspectives?" I've lived in Poland and the U.S, went to Canada, Mexico, England, Ukraine and Germany. How many more "perspectives would I need?

maybe try reading communists works that go more thoroughly into the concepts?

bruh the work I do to research is crazy, I read all their is to read about it

Lui0210 · Answer

If you can't even use the right kind if there..

MAGABACK · Answer

@lui0210 wrote:

If you can't even use the right kind if there..

STUPID AUTO CORRECT

gelphielvr · Answer

@magaback wrote:

@gelphielvr wrote:

@magaback wrote:

@sailor wrote:

That is true, but you might be missing some perspectives here. If you think about it it's the same with other systems. Just saying. 🤷

What do u mean by "perspectives?" I've lived in Poland and the U.S, went to Canada, Mexico, England, Ukraine and Germany. How many more "perspectives would I need?

maybe try reading communists works that go more thoroughly into the concepts?

bruh the work I do to research is crazy, I read all their is to read about it

have you read any of Karl Marx's work? also being well traveled doesnt mean you know everything about a countries culture and politics

MAGABACK · Answer

@gelphielvr wrote:

@magaback wrote:

@gelphielvr wrote:

@magaback wrote:

@sailor wrote:

That is true, but you might be missing some perspectives here. If you think about it it's the same with other systems. Just saying. 🤷

What do u mean by "perspectives?" I've lived in Poland and the U.S, went to Canada, Mexico, England, Ukraine and Germany. How many more "perspectives would I need?

maybe try reading communists works that go more thoroughly into the concepts?

bruh the work I do to research is crazy, I read all their is to read about it

have you read any of Karl Marx's work? also being well traveled doesnt mean you know everything about a countries culture and politics

yes yes I've read Karl Marx's work page by page

Lui0210 · Answer

@magaback wrote:

We also went over this in World History on top of that

When it comes to high schools and middle school, the curriculum is pretty limited. They only teach what the districts think is "necessary." If you want a true history class, try college history courses that are free to go in depth on topics.

MAGABACK · Answer

@lui0210 wrote:

@magaback wrote:

We also went over this in World History on top of that

When it comes to high schools and middle school, the curriculum is pretty limited. They only teach what the districts think is "necessary." If you want a true history class, try college history courses that are free to go in depth on topics.

It's not that. I've actually read his works at home with my own free time

gelphielvr · Answer

@magaback wrote:

@lui0210 wrote:

@magaback wrote:

We also went over this in World History on top of that

When it comes to high schools and middle school, the curriculum is pretty limited. They only teach what the districts think is "necessary." If you want a true history class, try college history courses that are free to go in depth on topics.

It's not that. I've actually read his works at home with my own free time

which ones did you read? he has a bunch of works and some of them aren't translated yet

MAGABACK · Answer

I'm just ganna name a few, but The Communist Manifesto, On the Jewish Question, The Holy Family, The poverty of Philosophy, etc

gelphielvr · Answer

idk if I should close the post ...

Sailor · Answer

@gelphielvr wrote:

idk if I should close the post ...

I'll close it (not because it's breaking any rules, I just think enough has been said on the post and I don't want you to have to deal with any other users coming after you for the post. Politics can really show how people are.)

Sailor · Answer

I do hope you got closer to finding the answer you were looking for though.