Question

what is the condition of universe before bigbang?

Answer 1

According to which theory? :-)

Answer 2

any theory so that the likes of atheist physicist/scientist will open up their mind regarding the birth of the universe.

Answer 3

See the following link, top of page:

http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmology_faq.html#BBB

So, there is no real consensus on what came before the Big Bang, and it's currently considered outside the bounds of science. You can do a Google search and find a few interesting theories, but there's no way yet to verify any.

Personally, I see so many problems with the Big Bang theory itself that I find it difficult to believe it hasn't been discarded yet in favor of a better theory. The reason is that there isn't any better theory - and that's why many would argue that the universe was created.

All of this, however, is outside the realm of science. Science deals with the observable, the repeatable, and the testable (think the scientific method). The best we can do is construct models that best fit the scientific data. The data, I think, points not to a Big Bang, but to a sudden appearance of the complete universe.

In conclusion, your question pertains to the implications of physics, not physics itself. We probably should not again bring our discussions outside functional physics - that's not what this place is for.

Answer 4

What kind of evidence point for a created universe ? (Or just against the Big Bang theory)

Answer 5

An interesting question, William, and one that I would enjoy discussing - but again, this probably isn't the best place.

Answer 6

Ok, thanks anyway.

Answer 7

A physics thread about the big bang? I'd be hard pressed to think of a better place.

Answer 8

Underhill is right, this is more for homework help and answers to specific problems than general open discussion. There are great forums out there for that kind of thing though, such as www.physicsforums.com - a personal favourite and invaluable resource.

Answer 9

Few Screws Missing,

I second the http://www.physicsforums.com recommendation! [thumbs up]

Answer 10

i believe that there cannot exist a universe witout mind entering into it,

everything exists because u think it does,

without thoughts there is nothing,

thoughts superimpose and create reality,

if there is no one to think there will be nthing,

Answer 11

Stom, you have now officially been marked as a hippie :P

Answer 12

????

Answer 13

It's just a joke on your not-very-scientific response ;)

Answer 14

u say that because u dont know quantum mechanics,

kiddo!!!

Answer 15

i feel pity for u from heart

Answer 16

I know quantum mechanics, hippie ;)

Answer 17

then u might be able to understand what i said

Answer 18

I know enough quantum mechanics to know about the observer effect you speak of, and it it often taken far from context by clowns like Fred Allen Wolf and other new-age types.

Answer 19

^ word

Answer 20

The observer effect is quantifiable and does not imply that the universe does not exist without us, or that we can control it in any way, is simply collapses the wave function of the particle.
As for the Schroedinger's cat problem; well I would recommend the books "schroedinger's cat" and its sequel"schroedingers kittens"

Answer 21

I'm baking oatmeal raisin cookies right now, but I haven't checked them in a few minutes. Even so, I am reasonably certain that they still exist.

Answer 22

it makes total sense to me,
the thought vibration stuff,

and even quantum mechanics also points to it

Answer 23

It may make sense to you, but not to quantum physicists. Ask around.

Answer 24

but there has to be someone to create that necessary disturbance for any event to happen,

when there is no one to think there will be no event,

there is a thought attached to every event,

Answer 25

it does not make sense to serious physics ppl, i know very well

Answer 26

Which part of quantum mechanics leads to the conclusion that events cannot occur without thoughts? And what are thoughts, anyway?

Answer 27

So the moon does not exist when nobody is looking? that whole idea?
no, in fact the wave function of things large like the moon , or even a fly, are stable and do not require an observer to "keep them as they are" because it is such a small wavelength when the object is macroscopic.

Answer 28

planck's constant is very small, after all.

Answer 29

but if everyone in the whole entire world stops thinking, and making those disturbances,

then moon certainly will stop doing what its suppose to do

Answer 30

the reason being, that events r related to eachh other

Answer 31

I am not convinced, and you have a lot of earth science and cosmology to contend with if you are to suppose that the universe behaved differently until the arrival of the human race.

Answer 32

ok i will explain nicely,

look we think and things happen,
all events have got thoughts associated with them,

not oly things which r hapening but also things which will happen,

if u thiink deeper on this u will realise that its only thoughts that give rise to events taking place


on the most basic level,

Answer 33

The real question is to me is
"what is consciousness, and why does it affect reality at all"
one good book on this topic:
"The Emperors New Mind" by Roger Penrose

Answer 34

or just on the subject of consciousness alone:
GEB by Douglas Hofstadter

Answer 35

The sun and moon and planet earth certainly existed before we did, no?

Answer 36

consiiousness on the very baic leve is the feeling of existing,

the ability to think and make independent desisions and cause disturbance in space time which give rise to even more events,

i think this is consiousness

Answer 37

the sun and moon did exist before @jemurray,

Answer 38

Yet there was nobody to observe them, so....

Answer 39

"if u thiink deeper on this u will realise that its only thoughts that give rise to events taking place"

So this implies that there are no discoveries, that all the facts of the world we learn are of our own creation?

If the sun and moon existed before us, then how is there behavior in any way dependent on our thoughts?

Even if it was, who determined how our thoughts affect it's behavior?

All roads lead to laws of physics that do not depend on the mind itself.

Answer 40

lets talk of sun and the moon first,

we think about sun and moon,
and we affect them,

because by thinking about them we start a chain of events which, leads to a an event which changes them,

just by thinking

Answer 41

but what about before we were here to think about them?

Answer 42

then either they didnt existed at all,

or

someone before u might have caused the necessary disurbance

Answer 43

that's a lot of maybe...

Answer 44

If the planet earth didn't exist before we were here, how would we ever arrive to think about it?

Answer 45

The paradox formulated^

Answer 46

thats the problem with many chain like things,

u can understand the middle thugs but u dont know where the chain ends or begins,


it is a paradox,
\i am speechless to it,

Answer 47

if i knew answer to that paradox i would be dining with the royals right now,

Answer 48

I shall resolve the paradox: The existence of the universe has nothing whatsoever to do with consciousness. I do not understand what piece of physical evidence would lead one to think otherwise.

Answer 49

I don't understand your perception of "the middle of things" which we just showed leads to a paradox. I do, however, understand the laws of physics as they are formulated, and that don't lead to a paradox (at least not one that obvious). Basically what Jmurray said..

Answer 50

u 2 may be right ,

and thought vibration may be wrong ,

but hey,

even ur theories have paradoxes,

Answer 51

This is unarguably true, but the paradoxes are much more subtle...

Answer 52

And, more importantly, they have been verified time and again by experimental evidence.

Answer 53

look u might think that Thought Vibration is all hazy without any science and maths to it,

but thoughts can be manupulated mathematically,

when the world realises it,

Answer 54

maths has to be there to back any theory

Answer 55

I know you are a good mathematician Stom, I see it now as your philosophy of life I suppose...

Answer 56

If there is no experiment, there is no science. Period. Metaphysics or philosophy maybe, but not science.

Answer 57

thanks for the complement turing test,
i feel important.

@jeemurray

there is experiment,

there r so many evedinces of thought vibration

Answer 58

Like what?

Answer 59

I worked in a bookstore that was very popular on this type of subject for two years, and being science minded I looked for evidence. I found none.

Answer 60

like

when we think of something,
the world actually works for u and leads to a chain of events which finally make ur dream true.


this has happened to me thousands of time

Answer 61

@turin test
u remind me of mr michael farady

Answer 62

Surely you don't consider that evidence...?

Answer 63

oh i surely do,

Answer 64

Personal testimonies are many, and on many subjects. If they were admitted as scientific evidence we would have proof on every angel, alien, and phantom that was ever claimed to exist.

Answer 65

Science can be demonstrated before you in a classroom. This cannot be done with your testimony.

Answer 66

i would be able ot prove that its a scientific experiment

only if i knew the maths to deal with thoughts,

Answer 67

i mean manipulating thoughts mathematically

Answer 68

That would surely warrant a Fields Medal, but I'm not quite certain what it means...

Answer 69

so what it means

Answer 70

anyways thanks u guys,

i learnt a lot from the long disscussion we had today,

so r u guys physicists or professors or ,,,

just curious,

Answer 71

Just a physics student at University of Guadalajara

Answer 72

I very much enjoyed the discussion as well. I am not a professor, just a lowly student for now.... I'll be in graduate school this coming fall, though I'm not sure exactly which one.

Answer 73

Kudos to all :)