Question

Is there any law of physics stating anything like you cannot have a machine or object moving perpetually or almost perpetually (Earth does that)? I am asking because I have come up with a very simple method to have a windmill-like thing rotating on its own, without any wind, perpetually and using primarily just the potential energy coupled with a few twists and maneuvers involving stuff like ropes, pulleys, springs, gears and the likes. I would also like to hear of a suitable simulation software where i can test the idea. Thank you.

Answer 1

Check out the second law of thermodynamics

Answer 2

things rotate around eternally ... if there is no air resistance or friction.

Answer 3

No law states that objects can't move prepetually--they can if no force acts on them. It just says you can't build perpetual motion machines because there is always some friction or some unwanted force you can't eliminate.
I would love to hear about your idea & point out the flaw in it. Hehe...

Answer 4

If i am not wrong, the laws of thermodynamics refer to an 'isolated system'. Since potential energy is the main source in my hypothetical machine (coupled with few other maneuvers as mentioned earlier) this doesn't count as an isolated system since there is always an external source acting ie gravity. i figured out a way how to tackle those unwanted forces such as friction/heat loss etc. It's a very simple idea anyone can understand that. But first i want to test this in a simulation software and then may be i will post that solution here - if it works out lol. but im 95% sure it works.

Answer 5

if you are using ropes and pulleys and strings ... there will definitely be a friction, and if there is air there will definitely be air resistance ... no matter how small it is,
you know if given time for eternity ... a random monkey can replacate Shakespeare work.

Answer 6

the things i mentioned were meant as an example only, the precise thing works differently. the ocean moves perpetually too. that's because its not an isolated system. the thing i have in mind is as simple as that, nothing complicated, just a bit out of the box. looking for suggestions on a suitable simulation software.

Answer 7

well ... matlab is a good one!!

Answer 8

or you can choose C, C++, java etc ... haven't worked with C++ ... but i hear it's excellent.

Answer 9

would PYTHON be suitable..

Answer 10

yep ... i think it would be good. i tried to learn once .. didn't find comfortable without { } ... but everyone who uses it says it's excellent.

Answer 11

Practically, this is neigh-impossible, as the windmill will radiate photons (Infrared, etc.), so the lost E=hf energy will reduce the mill's kinetic energy

Answer 12

It's always good to think out of the box and try to build something like this...however, you may as well be trying to build a time machine. Many have tried to build perpetual machines and 0 have succeeded. The problem lies in the fact that there are always sources of energy loss in any machine.

Answer 13

Try just building the actual machine. Perpetual motion devices don't work. Similarly, ocean waves isn't a perpetual motion, even though it seems as such. The moon and earth aren't going to be there forever, even though you might think, "so what?" it's really more like looking at a spring wobbling back and forth, except that it takes much longer for the "spring" of the ocean to stop wobbling in comparison to your lifetime, but the fact is that the ocean won't be waving forever.

Answer 14

yep ... theoretically it's possible to build a system that is in perpetual motion ... but impossible to get "work" done out of that machine. for example:- you can build a pendulum on vacuum ... it will oscillate forever (under ideal conditions) ... but you do not get work done out of it.

Answer 15

By definition, the movement of the pendulum is work, so you're wrong experimentX. W=Fd right? So if gravity is constantly pulling it back down and moving it through the vacuum, then work is done. Also, the point on which it hinges is a source for heat to escape the system. If you had it suspended with magnets, the atoms in the pendulum aren't completely rigid and will heat and eventually slow it down. Theoretically it is impossible to build a perpetual motion device unless you're using bad theories.

Answer 16

i told you ... under ideal conditions (theoretically) when there are not dissipative forces no radiations, you will have a perpetual motion.

Answer 17

all machines do work ... and if you are in a conservative field, if you go around from one point can come back in the same point (any path), the net work done is zero.

Answer 18

You said there was no work done, I showed how work was done. I think you're confusing theory with model. You can model something as an ideal gas for instance for simplicity, but theoretically we know that gas doesn't behave exactly like this, but it's useful for making predictions without getting into too hairy of math. There's no "in theory you can have perpetual motion" because theory tells us that it's impossible. We just use simplifications to help understand our world, but that is not the theory, it is the model.

Answer 19

about the impossibly of perpetual system ... consider this system
you have a uniform magnetic field going inside the the page ... if electron is projected, it will be in perpetual circular motion .... if there no any other atoms.

Answer 20

i wrote "get "work" done out of that machine" <-- if the perpetual motion is conserved, then how will it do work? it should never dissipate any energy as energy is lost in work done.

Answer 21

I remember few guys back in high school try to do this

make a pendulum with bar magnet hanging and swing it around a closed coil, you will have perpetually electricity. lol.