Question

WE NEED TO STOP GIVING PEOPLE ANSWERS

Answer 1

though we argue that we are showing people the solutions, I see this as handing out a practice test that is the exact same thing as the actual test.

May I suggest that we provide a different example as a guide instead of their actual homework? I believe that in this manner, we can pin point whether they've understood the concept at all or not.

Answer 2

ANSURS*

Answer 3

And the worst part is that this is on the OS CoC. "Give Help, Not Answers - I will encourage and guide those needing help, and not just give them an answer"

That is something every user here has agreed to do. NEVER give an answer. Still I see people do it left and right... and not just any people. Go through the math section and you will see moderators doing it. I have been in the middle of a long session with someone who clearly did not get the basics and had a mod come along and say, "Oh, that is the hard way. Here. Just do this...." and post a complete (and wrong) answer. (It was wrong because they forgot to adjust for the piecewise nature of the original graph...) The user just goes off and submits an answer at that point and stops learning!

Oh, and math is not alone. English gets tons of answers with no explanation, no exploration, no work at all on the part of the learner. Just, "Its a verb" or "B!" and so on. The only good news in English is that I don't see mods doing this.

Peer tutoring is about helping a person find an answer, not just giving them one. This can be done through a related example or by talking about the problem at hand and letting them do the work. If they do the work, correction of mistakes is critical! You mist... must fix mistakes quickly or they get put into long term memory as being the proper answer.

Answer 4

^what @e.mccormick said

Answer 5

I couldn't agree more

Answer 6

right, and then schools get peeved at OS for getting students answers and it causes a bunch of unnecessary conflict. This really is a great site, and something has to be done about this. More enforcement of CoC, perhaps implement @JA1 's intricate plan , but regardless, what is most important is that we start changing ourselves. To all the people reading this post (come on, I know you are out there O_O), start by making sure u provide a basic synopsis and let the users figure it out for themselves! All of us have room for improvement tho ( even myself, I must admit). Thank you @nincompoop for this post, really reminded me of my purpose here on OS. I think this would qualify for yet another awesome piece of Nincompoopery XD

Answer 7

@e.mccormick No one reads the CoC

Answer 8

Yah... it is like a software license. "Sign away my soul to use this product... sure!"

Answer 9

i agree with @nincompoop

Answer 10

I agree, and @nincompoop, this has been posted and lamented over countless number of times in the Feedback section. I'd say at this point it's a bit too hopeful to expect a change anytime soon unfortunately.

Answer 11

But I have to say your idea is the best.

> May I suggest that we provide a different example as a guide instead of their actual
> homework? I believe that in this manner, we can pin point whether they've understood
> the concept at all or not.

That would work even better then trying to "lead" towards answers, as the CoC already asks to do.

Answer 12

i think @nincompoop is right

Answer 13

Hallelujah, someone finally made a post about this, I was making one myself but never got around to finish it, anyways yes I am tired of this, it's like giving someone a fully taken test and then tell them to study what you did, you think users care about learning what YOU did if they already have the answer? LOL NO! (BTW, read my profile!) So what we need to do is what I have expressed a bazillion times, try and GUIDE the user to the question, basically the answer should NEVER leave your head, you should never give the answer, what you can do is ask the user a question that answers a part of the process to get the full answer, guide them. I see greenies doing this a lot and because I have respect for them I choose not to say anything to them but it doesn't mean I agree with it. A good example of how to do this can be found here (Many thanks to Thommy) here:

http://openstudy.com/study#/updates/51dc508de4b0d9a104d9e28f

Narcissism apart, that is a good way to teach a user and help them, as the old saying goes, "If you give a man a fish he eats for a day, but if you teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime."

Answer 14

I wish I could medal every one of you who has posted here. :)

As a "real life" math teacher, I only recently stumbled on this site and have become addicted (for reasons I cannot explain). I think the whole concept is fascinating, and I do enjoy talking/teaching math!!

But it's a mixed bag... both because of the question-askers and some of their attitudes, and also because of other people who pop into a thread where I've just spent 5-10 minutes typing up a "concept lesson", in teeny-tiny baby steps, because clearly that's what is needed.... and just give an outright answer or a completely worked solution to the problem. Uhm, yeah, *I* could have done that a 1/2 hour ago!

I'm not all that familiar with cyber-schooling and how it works, but what kills me is that these kids who think they've got this great system in place to whiz through their cyber-school high school classes with great grades, are the one who will end up coming to the campus where I teach and being placed in a remedial algebra class because of our placement exam. And then they STILL won't do well in that, because they don't know HOW TO LEARN MATH.

That said, there have been some very confused askers who have stuck with me for 30, 45, 60+ minutes while we went back and forth to learn a concept, and who have been very appreciative at the end and clearly gained something from it. Just like in my "day job", those are the ones who make it worthwhile. :)

Answer 15

Yeah.....you're right @nincompoop..

Answer 16

`NEVER give an answer.`
^ I definitely Disagree with this statement.

It's so important to understand why someone has come to the site and what they are expecting to get out of it.

Time after time after time I see students who need to see `one problem worked out for them, from START to FINISH` and then they'll be able to do the next 50 on their own because they understand the process from that point.

And no, sometimes you can't just make up an example on the spot, especially for more difficult subjects. So you have to work out the problem they've provided.

Understanding their intentions is so important.
Some people come to the site with improper motives, I understand that.
Maybe it's just me, but I can usually sniff out the stinkers:
They're impatient, unresponsive and just waiting for the answer.

I love when a student wants to be involved in the problem and doesn't need you to show them every little step ~ you just guide them along and allow THEM to figure out what's going on. It's certainly more rewarding for them that way. But that's not necessarily where every student is at. :)

I do avoid giving away answers as often as possible. But I've found so much success in the process I described above.

I agree with most everything else said, I just wanted to make that distinction. :D

Answer 17

@zepdrix The thing is, you can use an example that is not their exact problem. Then, if all they need is one fully worked example, they can learn from that and you have not given them an answer.

Answer 18

Like I said, sometimes that's not possible.

Answer 19

You said, " Time after time after time I see students who need to see one problem worked out for them, from START to FINISH and then they'll be able to do the next 50 on their own because they understand the process from that point"

If working out the same problem but with different numbers won't do that, then working the problem with their number won't either. You can't have it both ways. They are either going to learn from a detailed example or not. And the difference between \(5x^2-7x+42\) and \(3x^2-5x+12\) is not going to change the learning process and if they can do it or not.

For every problem, it can be worked and the intent of the problem discovered. Then, from any one of dozens of sources the same type of problem, but with different numbers, can be found.

Answer 20

No you misunderstood me.
I don't mean that's not possible because the student wouldn't understand another example. I'm saying that in tougher subjects in which I don't have a full understanding (like multivariable calculus) i can't just make up a complex problem like that on the spot.

And even searching one up is often a daunting task.

Answer 21

I found "About 146,000 results (0.26 seconds) " https://www.google.com/search?q=multivariable+calulus+example+problems

There are tons of open books on the topic. But to limit myself to peer reviewed ones:
http://www.aimath.org/textbooks/

Tons of problems, many with solutions, all available for free.

Answer 22

I don't want this post to be where people argue about their views about my suggestion.

I know when it is not possible to set another example or concept, and during those times, I provide excerpts of a book or a lecture of mine or I even teach them in my own way of understanding. But for the most part in math (even in high-level), chemistry and physics we can't deny that another set of example would be suitable. In terms of history and some biological concepts like the theory of evolution, I think we can provide lectures or suggest that perhaps they read their own materials.

TO REITERATE my point - I am not being stingy about providing solutions, I just don't like that the lack of assertiveness is being encouraged. I WOULD LIKE THEM TO LEARN, so that they may be able to think for themselves. I see the point of assignments or homework as to make the concept become part of the memory reflex and also to make finals easier to tackle.

Aren't you tired of getting the same excuse that the reason they are asking is that they were not given the appropriate materials or the thing that they are looking for are not in their book, electronic-book, or paper that they were given? I share ebooks and even provide the appropriate pages or chapters where the concepts may be found. The only time that no lecture or no notes are given for a quiz or test is during an evaluation of where a pool of students stand - like what fundamentals that aren't clear or any prior knowledge that might be required - for the course they're about to take. My professors do this a lot and it is one way for them to re-design or re-work their materials.

YOU DO NOT NEED to heed to my suggestion. After all, I was only trying to find out a way to streamline learning, cut down cheating, and also encourage teaching and learning more fun.

Answer 23

I am sure there are other documents on this, but I like the concepts expressed in "Book 7: Planning and Using Peer Tutoring" on this page:
http://educationnorthwest.org/resource/1680

Answer 24

never....