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HippoCampus Religion 9 Online
OpenStudy (anonymous):

Is Jesus God?

OpenStudy (tkhunny):

Jesus is the God of the Old Testament - Jehovah Jesus is not His Father - Elohim Jesus is the Only Begotten of the Father in the Flesh. Jesus accomplished the Atonement and took His place on the right hand of the Father. This makes Him very close to God. It was the fear of being called polytheistic that caused early Christians and nonchristians (calling themselves christians) in the third century to confuse the two personages. The "Great Intercessory Prayer" makes this most clear, unless you have a translation that has polluted the doctrine. See John 17

OpenStudy (kendricklamar2014):

Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit. The trinity!

OpenStudy (gibbs):

Your wrong Jesus is his son god is our creator read the bible.

OpenStudy (gibbs):

Jesus said before he died FATHER for give them for they do not know what they are doing. Who was he talking to himself nope he was talking To God His FATHER

OpenStudy (tkhunny):

The trinity is a common belief amongst christians, but it is not a biblical doctrine. Christian scholars know this. Please refer to my second-to-last comment, repeated here for your convenience. It is not a matter of opinion. These are historical facts. It was the fear of being called "polytheistic" that caused early Christians and nonchristians (calling themselves christians) in the third century [AD] to confuse the two personages. Also, read John 17 very slowly and carefully. Actually read the words and understand what it says. Do not confuse the 1700 years of subsequent exegesis with the actual words in the Bible. Of course, be careful of your translation. Some are better than others.

OpenStudy (kenljw):

There are Christian religions today the openly declare Christ as God the Father while others hide behind the trinity saying Christ is their Lord. The principle of the only way to God the Father is through Christ implies that only Christ exist and God the Father is ineffectual. People seem to prefer this because of their complete misunderstanding of God the Father and think Christ would more merciful. The fact that God the Father brought about Christ shows his mercy and his effectuality. I don't believe God the Father would ever bring into being soneone to take his place, maybe to compliment it though.

OpenStudy (tkhunny):

"take His place"? This is not a risk. To stand on His right hand? Now, this is good.

OpenStudy (gibbs):

you who think jesus is god are wrong you will see whn jseus comes to earth and god is in haven.

OpenStudy (kendricklamar2014):

What is the Holy Trinity: The Christian doctrine of the Trinity defines God as three consubstantial persons, expressions, or hypostases: the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit; "one God in three persons".

OpenStudy (kendricklamar2014):

What are the three parts of the Trinity: The Trinity does not divide God into three parts. The Bible is clear that all three Persons are each one hundred percent God. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all fully God.

OpenStudy (tkhunny):

"The Bible is Clear" That is a very hard point to argue. It's a wonderful book. It exists in so many languages and time periods that we must ask in what language it is clear and in what time period it is clear. You cannot find the words "consubstantial" or "hypostases" in the Bible. Why do we need new words to define the clarity that already exists? It remains the fact that the Holy Trinity is NOT a Biblical doctrine. No one at the council that created the doctrine came in with that idea. It was a compromise of the council. You cannot believe in both the true and literal resurrection of Jesus and believe in the Holy Trinity. You have to let one or the other go.

OpenStudy (kendricklamar2014):

John 14:6 says: Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. How can you believe in Jesus, but deny the Holy Spirit? It like if your saying I believe in Jesus, but I don't believe in God or the Holy Spirit. The verse is very clear, you need Jesus Christ to come to the Father (aka God).

OpenStudy (tkhunny):

Right... and what translation is that? KJV says "by me". Many other versions use other words. Translation is a very difficult task. Feel free to believe in Jesus, the Son of God, His Father, God, and in the Holy Spirit. There is no need to throw 3rd century compromise into the mix. The doctrine was just fine before that.

OpenStudy (kendricklamar2014):

^

OpenStudy (kenljw):

With prep (12c) 1b: so as to separate or detached from. In Eygpt prior to 1,000 BC silver was more precious than gold. KJB Exodus chapter 20 verse 23 Ye shall not make with me gods of silver, neither shall you make unto you gods of gold. Translating the first part. Ye shall not make so as to separate or detached from me gods of most precious, ... This is the Eleventh Commandment given by Moses relayed from God.

OpenStudy (anonymous):

It is false that Jesus was Yehava in the, "Old Testament" otherwise known as the Torah. When G-d was seen in a loving light he was yehova, and when he was being judging and commanding he was referred to as elokim.

OpenStudy (anonymous):

@tkhunny Am very disturbed how you could think Jesus is God in the Torah

OpenStudy (tkhunny):

No disturbance necessary. Same, yesterday, today, and forever. Waiting for His return as Messiah. Not a stretch at all. I realize you have had a couple thousand years to discuss it. You clearly have separated the presentation into to personas, but not two personages. If God today is not the God of the New Testament, or not the God of the Old Testament / Torah, then we have multiple Gods. Are you happy with that. Note: My views. I welcome others. Generally, we generate reasonable discussion by eliminated inflammatory phrases such as , "It is false that..."

OpenStudy (kenljw):

Yes, though at different levels. The end of Revelations thereis a temple for God the Father and God the Son. I'm not a trinitarian, even in Revelations chapter 1 speaks of two alpha omega's, Revelation's is a prophecy of Jesus Christ it doesn't speak to what God the Father does as to align and correct.

OpenStudy (anonymous):

To the Jews G-d always is, was and will be the one and only G-d. Time is not able to confine G-d as nothing can confine G-d. There is no different G-d from now back to the Torah.

OpenStudy (tkhunny):

Right, which makes Jehovah, the God of the Old Testament, who come to Earth as the Baby Jesus, to accomplish the Atonement and take His rightful place on the Right Hand of God, still God today, just as much as yesterday. Sounds like we're pretty close to an agreement.

OpenStudy (kenljw):

I do disagree, I think God the Father protected Christ in his life, hence why he said on the cross "why have thou foresaken me". When God comes to our planet, as fortold by the prophet's, he will not be protected. This is the only way he can find out for himself as the prophecy fortold. What will he discover from our world, well he have a shelter life, or would he be subject to our worse horrors. What would his experience be being human in our times, what would the world do to him trying to subject him as everyone else. Would he see what most of us consider unfathonable and what will be his conclusions. Frankly I feel Christ real purpose is to save him.

OpenStudy (tkhunny):

Read more carefully. The Savior is not here to do anything except that which His Father sent Him to do - all of which was in the plan from the beginning. Notes: Matthew 13:35 Matthew 25:34 Luke 11:50 John 17:24 Ephesians 1:4 Hebrews 4:3 Hebrews 9:26 1 Peter 1:20 Revelation 13:8

OpenStudy (kenljw):

You cite all from the NT try Isaiah 46:13 and 63:5 In reference to Revelation 13:8, in keeping with my previous interpretation of this chapter. world 1a: the earthly state of human existence b; ... Each colony got their religious charter from the king of England, hence Lamb slain from the foundation ... The verse is a little esoteric and one must understand the meaning of 666 or in Roman numerals DCLXVI. See my site for one interpetation of 666, the Roman numeral one is not given yet, but will if promted there. Kenneth West, Wellsville NY

OpenStudy (tkhunny):

Yes, I understand that these are your personal interpretations of the scriptures. I also understand that this is not a reliable source. Neither is my personal interpretation.

OpenStudy (kenljw):

Please explain what's not reliable, you may object of my interpetations I understand but my source's are the same as your's.

OpenStudy (tkhunny):

Asked and answered. You're not a prophet. Neither am I. Even if we get together and think really hard, such an interpretation is unreliable. That's why we call it "exegesis" instead of "prophecy".

OpenStudy (kenljw):

Exegesis has more to do with tows, small threads, than the entirity of scriptures. In the military of the US a person is called by their last name and generally for us that were there that's how we knew each other. Once we reentered the civilan world we went back to our first name. This has practical purpose in some things done in the military doesn't correlate to civilan life, its also a tow in scipture "the first shall be last and the last shall be first", of course this is out of context but generally all exegesis's are. As to your reference to Revelation 13:8, a tow, must be taken in context of Revelation 12 through 17, and if you don't accept the context I see there what context are you using to reference this tow.

OpenStudy (tkhunny):

I know enough to know I am not a reliable explainer of all things. Prophets should do that. Unless you claim to be a prophet, your explanation is no more valuable that that of anyone else. That's all I'm saying. Of course, if you claim to be a prophet, you must actually be one in order for there to be any benefit.

OpenStudy (kenljw):

I agree, but use Isaiah chapter 1 to see how tows are used. In the Gnostic scriptures there's an end time prophecy of "men will become stars". This is filled today by acedemics, K-12 and colloge, take the position, not to mentions celebratiies in theater, sports, science, religion, and politics, all of which purport knowledge, outside their choosen field which is essentually opinion, that people follow. There's a difference between understanding a prophecy in light of historical events and trying to understand it as to future events. My understanding of Revelation 12 thouth 17 is based on events that has occured in the last 400 or so years and I can make direct correlations. As to seeing what occurs after Revelations 17 I have ideas, but I can not say exactly because it hasn't occured yet. They say that hind sight is 20:20 and it is essecntial if one is to see forward.

OpenStudy (chantysquirrel1129**):

Yes, Jesus is God! 1 Timothy 3:16: "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

OpenStudy (tkhunny):

Well, except the He didn't believe that. John 17 If you are going to understand it, you must understand ALL of it. No cherry picking. We can argue with the Bible all day. Men have been doing it for many centuries and have come to no sure conclusion. Through an appeal to the Bible, and the scholarly pursuits of men, we have managed only to be farther from "one Lord, one faith, one baptism". The truth comes from God, not from Man's imaginations on the Bible, mixed with 2000 years of exegesis.

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