Question

This is a rather lengthy response to @helpkay...

Answer 1

In your previous post, you said:
"I would like to know what you mean by possessions a woman was a slave because at time people where slave a woman was owned because of slavery and a woman is under her husband that does mean the husband is a dictator and the woman should do everything her husband says but she should be willing to submit to her husband if he is not trying to get her to do wrong."


I never referred to women as being slaves in the Bible. They were not slaves; they were more like possessions (with the exception of Exodus). Women are referred to as inferior in every way in the Bible. Remember when God said that husbands should rule over their wives? It's in the first few pages of the Bible:
"I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."
Morally, I have to disagree with your statement that a wife "should be willing to submit to her husband." In a good relationship, both the husband and wife should be able to work with each other.
Have you ever read Numbers 31?
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+31&version=KJV
How about Judges 21?
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Judges+21&version=KJV
Or Deuteronomy 20?
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+20&version=KJV
Or Deuteronomy 21?
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+21&version=KJV
Or Deuteronomy 22?
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+22&version=KJV

Apparently, it is acceptable to rape any woman you want as long as you pay her father fifty shekels of silver. And if you are in war, you can take whichever women you want.
Time and time again, God leads his followers into battle. He lets them enjoy the "spoils" of their battle, a.k.a. women. Do you think it is okay that God led his followers take women as spoils of war? @helpkay


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+12&version=KJV
Why is a woman unclean for two weeks if she has a daughter as opposed to one week if she has a son?

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+15&version=KJV
This passage says that a woman must sacrifice animals after her period ends. It seems barbaric, doesn't it? We don't do that today.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+27&version=KJV
In Leviticus 27, the Lord says that men are worth 50 shekels and silver, but females are only worth 30! Classic sexism.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+21&version=KJV
In this passage, male Hebrew slaves are to be released after six years. But female slaves are not to be released.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+19&version=KJV
Do you remember when Lot is saved from Sodom by the Lord because he is "not wicked?" If he is not wicked, then why did he offer his daughters to be raped? @helpkay

Throughout the Bible, there are very few female leads, which I find to be disappointing. There are figures like Mary, but they are not empowered or shown as leaders.

Answer 2

You also said:
"this could take forever to explain but I will say the God in the bible is not the same god that is in the Koran the Muslim people follow Allah the Jewish people follow Jesus."

Wait. What. Have you ever even read the Quran? Do you know what Jews believe?
The Quran has the same god as the Bible. The only difference is that the Quran refers to God as "Allah." Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all abrahamic religions. They all worship the same God!
You said that the "Jewish people follow Jesus." Although many Jewish people believe that Jesus existed, Jews do not believe that he was the messiah. In Judaism, Jesus is not worshipped (like in Christianity). This is the main difference between these two religions. It would be more appropriate to say that "Christian people follow Jesus."

Answer 3

"the sin story
yes it seem wired but it like you tell a kid not to play in the road one day the kid goes in the road and gets hit by a car did the kid know that road was dangers yes did he know that he could get hurt yes but he didn't know the evil a junk driver how could have killed her it was that she didn't know the evil that could happen on the road it was because of the disobedience"

Telling a child not to run in the road does not compare to the story of Adam and Eve. I'm not sure how familiar you are with Genesis, so I'll explain my view of the story.

God did not tell these two to avoid the fruit for a good reason. The tree is referred to as the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil." He said that "the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." However, the serpent told Eve that if she ate from it, she would not. On the day they ate the fruit, they did not die. Do you find it strange that God lied while the serpent told the truth? @helpkay

It is very, very, very, very important to remember that Adam and Eve did not know right from wrong before eating from the tree. They did not know until after they ate the fruit that they had done a bad deed. God had no right to punish them.

That brings up the point that God made the serpent! Why do you think God created the serpent if he knew that it was going to tempt Adam and Eve? God is all-knowing; why wouldn't he prevent Adam and Eve from being tempted? @helpkay

Answer 4

You also said: for Noah's ark look at this

https://arkencounter.com/?utm_campaign=animal-campaign&utm_campaign=Ark&utm_medium=digital&utm_medium=Paid+&utm_source=jda-ads&utm_source=GoogleAdWords

I knew about Ken Ham's plans to build that expensive ark. He's a crazy man for sure. Have you seen his debate with Bill Nye? It's definitely worth watching, but it's a bit long.
I really, really LOVE this article by Dr. Jason Long.
Please read this and tell me what you think: http://www.biblicalnonsense.com/chapter6.html
@helpkay

Answer 5

You said: ok I don't believe the bible and the koran are the same books

the bible was written by men who were inspired by God
the koran is a book written by a guy he said he got revelations from an angle whether that is true or not I don't know
this is anther thing I could spend forever on but I'm not going to

You are correct in stating that the Bible and the Quran are not the same books. However, they are very similar. I'd say they are about 60% the same. Both are abrahamic religions; the Quran shares a lot of stories from the Bible.
Both the Bible and Quran were written by men inspired by God. We don't know if any of them were lying or not.

Answer 6

You said that "every word of the bible is true so there is nothing so I believe the who bible and every word it says and that was a really good question like if the whole bible wasn't true how do we know that salvation is true how do we know heaven is true how do we know angel are real there is only one thing that could be done either the whole bible is true or the whole bible is a lie but I say the whole bible is true "

Do you eat seafood? Do you wear clothing with two or more fabrics? Do you sow your garden with more than one type of seed? @helpkay

Answer 7

"you say you don't believe in god because there is no no evidence that one exists.

look around you the flower the leafs the seasons what about a person with a disease that is on there deaf bed and one day it gone and there is no trace of it being there do you think that is just a coincidence "

I've never heard of anyone being on their "deaf bed" before lol. There is no evidence that God exists - you just explained the wonders of nature.

"My dad knew someone who had a grapefruit size tumor on her brain my dad and some other people went and prayed over her and the next time she went to the doctors it was gone and there were no signs it was ever there and she lived many more years"

So if God heals tumors, why doesn't he heal amputees too?

"My uncle dad has stage 4 cancer and was dying right now he is still working a job and his cancer is in remission. do you think that is not God then you have something I don't have "

I'm sorry for your uncle/dad. But why did God give him cancer in the first place? @helpkay

Answer 8

@helpkay
I haven't checked out all the links you have sent me yet, but I will after I finish my chemistry homework. For now, I'd like to provide you with one of my favorite sources. It covers the Bible, Quran, and the Book of Mormon!
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

Answer 9

I know you're having a discussion with helpkay, but the God of the Bible is very different to the God of the Qur'an. Yes, they both stem from Abraham, but do they both stem from Isaac? No. What about the characteristics of both deities? You may think God condones a lot of evil, but there is a rather big misconception of how God actually works, at least, that's what I am gathering. Am I wrong?

Answer 10

Amputees? Look up Smith Wigglesworth. A very godly man, who, according to some stories, healed an amputee.

Answer 11

Did God lie in the Garden of Eden? Not at all! Death in a spiritual sense versus a physical sense are two different things. Because they sinned, they died spiritually. So, God did not lie.

Answer 12

"I know you're having a discussion with helpkay, but the God of the Bible is very different to the God of the Qur'an. Yes, they both stem from Abraham, but do they both stem from Isaac? No."

Actually, they both stem from Isaac. Keep in mind that Isaac translates to "Ishaw" in the Quran! @Jumperman

Answer 13

True. Adam and Eve did not know right from wrong because they only knew right. Evil had not been in play in them because they were made in God's image, and God is good.

Answer 14

Also, I believe that the God that is referred to in the Bible and Quran does a lot of evil acts. In other religious texts, God does not do as many questionable acts.

Answer 15

What evil has God committed?

Answer 16

@Jumperman
"Look up Smith Wigglesworth. A very godly man, who, according to some stories, healed an amputee."
Can I have a source?

Answer 17

@Jumperman
There are lots and lots of evil deeds that God has committed exclusively in the Bible. For example, killing millions of innocent people.

Answer 18

"Did God lie in the Garden of Eden? Not at all! Death in a spiritual sense versus a physical sense are two different things. Because they sinned, they died spiritually. So, God did not lie."
You bring up a good point.
You also said "Adam and Eve did not know right from wrong because they only knew right. "

Does this mean there was no such thing as "original sin"? @Jumperman

Answer 19

God and Allah are the same. This claim is made by Muslims. They believe that Allah translates into God, therefore the Christian/Jewish God is the same as the Muslim God. There are a few issues with this theology.
1. The Christian/Jewish God is able to have children. We see evidence of this as Yeshua, (Jesus), was conceived by the Holy Spirit. Muslims believe that Allah is too holy to have children.
2. The Christian God, which will be referred to Yahuwah in this portion, is made up of three persons. The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. This is called the Trinity. The doctrine of the Trinity isn't exactly taught in the Bible, but there are scriptures that back up the claim. Muslims believe that Allah is only one, and there is no Trinity.
3. Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet and will come back to reign for 40 years. The Bible says that Yeshua will come back and reign for 1000 years.
4. The Bible says that Christ was resurrected from the dead. Muslims reject this belief, and label it as a lie.
5. The Bible says that Yahuwah does not tempt mankind. (James 1:13) The Qur'an says something completely different. "Verily, the hypocrites seek to deceive Allah, but it is He Who deceives them. And when they stand up for As-Salat (the prayer), they stand with laziness and to be seen of men, and they do not remember Allah but little." S. 4:142
6. The Qur'an says, "And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain." This is talking about Jews killing Yeshua, (Jesus), and boasting about their victory. The issue is, the Jews did not know that Yeshua was the Messiah. If the Jews knew He was, they would not have killed Him. Plus, Yeshua was the Son of God, not the messenger of Allah. How could Yeshua be the Messiah and the messenger of Allah? He cannot be both.

Answer 20

Is God just for killing millions of people?

Answer 21

Original Sin? On Earth, there was. The disobedience of Adam and Eve.

Answer 22

Let me get back to you on the source. I want to find a good one.

Answer 23

God is all knowing, yes, but, He will not mess with our free will because He loves us. So, Adam's sin was Adam's fault, not God's. It's that whole, God could prevent evil argument, which isn't very sound.

Answer 24

Thank you for Skeptics Annotated Bible, I will now cover all of their questions and create counter arguments.

Answer 25

@Jumperman
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/formerlyfundie/yes-christians-and-muslims-worship-the-same-god-but-heres-what-that-means-doesnt/
Start reading under "Do Christians and Muslims worship the same God? Is God and Allah one-in-the-same? "
This will explain why Christians and Muslims worship the same God. As to whether Jesus was the messiah or not is widely debated in Islam and Judaism. This has nothing to do with whether they worship the same god.

Answer 26

"Is God just for killing millions of people?"
Absolutely not.

Answer 27

"Original Sin? On Earth, there was. The disobedience of Adam and Eve."
But you said that "Adam and Eve did not know right from wrong because they only knew right. Evil had not been in play in them because they were made in God's image"
If they didn't know right from wrong, they couldn't have sinned.
No original sin = no basis for the Bible.

Answer 28

Christ was the Messiah, it is very clear in the bible.

Answer 29

Why do you think they were so easily deceived? Evil was presented to Adam by the serpent, which was possessed by HaSatan.

Answer 30

Is a man justified for killing someone who is trying to kill his children?

Answer 31

Christ was not the messiah:
http://www.shamash.org/lists/scj-faq/HTML/faq/17-03.html
He never fulfilled the requirements! @Jumperman

Answer 32

"Why do you think they were so easily deceived? Evil was presented to Adam by the serpent, which was possessed by HaSatan."

Was it their fault that they were deceived? Do you think God should have forgiven them? @Jumperman

Answer 33

"Is a man justified for killing someone who is trying to kill his children?"
Absolutely. But what context are you speaking of? Remember when God had a bear maul 42 children when they insulted a man for being bald? Was that justified? How about all the innocent children he killed when he flooded the earth?

Answer 34

Well, because the man was bald, the young men, which is who they were they were not little kids, though the man was leper. They made fun of a prophet, sent by God, because they made a judgement that was completely false. The world was full of wickedness, and His children were threatened by it. God is justified.

Answer 35

He fulfilled all requirements. Yeshua never contradicts Torah. He is a descendant of David on Mary's side. Just because some of the prophecies are not fulfilled yet, doesn't mean they won't be. There still is a second coming. Yeshua was the last prophet. He prophesied the end times, Peter's denial, and so on. The Trinity is actually a true thing. God is one and three. And I'm challenging the source you gave me.

Answer 36

It wasn't their fault they were deceived, it was their fault they gave into temptation. They still sinned.

Answer 37

@helpkay here, if you want to chime in at any point.

Answer 38

"Well, because the man was bald, the young men, which is who they were they were not little kids, though the man was leper. "
Have you read 2 Kings 2? They were children, not young men.

Answer 39

Look at the translation better. They were young men.

Answer 40

No, they were referred to as "boys"
In the Bible, this means prepubescent males.

Answer 41

Btw, you never got back to me on whether Christians, Jews, and Muslims worship the same God. Also, you never posted the source about that amputee-healer.

Answer 42

"It wasn't their fault they were deceived, it was their fault they gave into temptation. They still sinned."
If it wasn't their fault, they didn't sin, did they?

Answer 43

Wasn't the snake the one who sinned?

Answer 44

No. The snake was sin. The devil is sin. So, by deceiving Adam and Eve, all sinned but God.

Answer 45

And, I said I'll get back to you on the source, and I'll read the Muslim thing later.

Answer 46

Check other translations of 2 Kings.

Answer 47

"The snake was sin. The devil is sin. So, by deceiving Adam and Eve, all sinned but God."

This doesn't make sense! If the snake deceived Adam and Eve, only the snake willingly sinned. Adam and Eve did not know that they had "sinned", so why should God have punished them?

Answer 48

"Check other translations of 2 Kings."

I only use the King James Version, which is the most accurate English translation. I won't use other translations that are less reliable.

Answer 49

Eve didn't know she sinned, but Adam did. That's why he blamed Eve first. He could have said no.

Answer 50

But Adam didn't know he had sinned until after he ate the fruit.

Answer 51

Remember that they didn't know right from wrong.

Answer 52

I'm probably wrong about the Adam and Eve thing because I'm tired and am partly guessing. I'm not trying because your argument is very illogical. I have the answer, I'm just with holding it from you. I'm sorry for the confusion.

Answer 53

"I'm not trying because your argument is very illogical."
It looks like you know there are inconsistencies in your argument but you're blaming me anyway because you disagree with me. Mature :/

Answer 54

If my argument is illogical, shouldn't you be "trying" to point me in the right direction?

Answer 55

No. I'm not blaming you of anything. Here is the answer. Adam and Eve knew the Torah. Torah is obedience to God. Possibility of evil is known, it just wasn't actualized by Adam and Eve yet. They didn't know sin because they had not sinned. But they knew of it's existence because God warned them.

Answer 56

Adam and Eve didn't know the Torah. The Torah was first revealed to Moses, remember?

Answer 57

Nope. The Torah is in Genesis. How did Noah know the difference between clean and unclean animals? How was homosexuality a sin? What about pagan worship? Sacrifices? How was Abel and Cain able to perform sacrifices correctly if the Torah was not in existence? They knew because the Torah was in existence.

Answer 58

No, they all knew that because they followed the word of God, not the Torah. The Torah didn't come until later.

Answer 59

The Word of God is comprised with the Troah. Torah needed to be reiterated because the Israelites lost their identity in God while in slavery. Yeshua is the Word and so is God. Torah is part of the Word.

Answer 60

I'm not really sure how that adds to your argument tbh...

Answer 61

I'm going to leave you with this source to read:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/essays/that-fateful-apple/
I encourage you to read the entire article.

I'll come back when I finish my math homework.

Answer 62

It's meaning they knew Torah.

Answer 63

Yeah. no. God created beings with free will. Yes. But free will means there are two choices. God did not deliberately create imperfect beings, and God does not have free will. God is all good. And He is all powerful, which means He cannot create self contradictions. He cannot create free will to only choose good, because that is still considered force. Free will means choice. The free will is then given, and evil is now a possibility, but not yet a reality in Adam and Eve's world. Evil was actualized by Adam and Eve by choosing to disobey God.

Answer 64

@Jumperman
Before Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, they did not have free will. Simply put, they did not know right from wrong.
God is all-knowing; he knew that they would eat the forbidden fruit. He also gave the forbidden fruit its powers.
God punished Adam and Eve for seeking free will.

We can conclude one of two things:
1. God is not omniscient, and was unable to predict that Adam and Eve would eat the forbidden fruit
2. God is sadistic and led them to eat the fruit so he could punish them

Answer 65

Both conclusions are wrong. You're trying to pin something on God that's not there. If it doesn't make sense to you, I'm sorry. I can't change how you think. It's late here, so I will go to bed. I will pray for you, I do not know when I will be able to return to this discussion.
God is Omniscient. He can see the results of different paths. Free Will is unpredictable. Doesn't mean God can't see past that and not know what's going on. He's curious to see what path we take. Eventually, we all end up in His throne room, giving our accounts to Him as to why we followed, or did not follow Him. He's not sadistic. Sin is abominable to Him. He can see past human understanding. I don't have all the answers, and partly, I'm just tired. Tired of every atheist's over analytical over thought illogical arguments that don't make sense at all. And you're probably tired of all the Christian arguments too. God exists. I tried to tell you. We'll see who is right in the end. Until then, let's all be at peace and accept that I believe what I believe, and you're not making me move or doubt my faith one bit. You're probably going to do the same. Good night.

Answer 66

I appreciated our debate and I think that we can agree to disagree.
Thanks for expressing your opinion and have a good night :)

Answer 67

Don't worry, I'll be back. I always come back harder and stronger than before. Until then, keep searching. I'll write a report challenging the Skeptics Annotated Bible, so thanks for that. If you want my report on the Misconceptions About God, I'd be happy to let you read it.

Answer 68

Do you have a link to it? If you can send it to me, I'd appreciate it.

Answer 69

It's not finished, and is still in it's draft stage, but it'll do.

Answer 70

@Jumperman I agree with you 100%

Answer 71

sorry i was gone and didn't respond I will answer ever question the best I can and it will take a long time so please don't rush to give you answer right away

this could lead to 50 paths but i would like to stay straight