Question

Does Torah apply to Christians today? (Really, I know the answer, but I'd like to know other people's views on the matter.)

Answer 1

Please provide scriptures or scripture references when answering.

Answer 2

Well, I can't speak on behalf of all christian religions but I'll do my best to represent the one that I belong to which is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

From what I understand, the Torah is imply the five books of Moses (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy), but they're according to the records kept by the people of Judaism. All christians generally at least believe in the old and new testaments which contain the first 5 books of moses. So in a way, it can be considered as another translation of the Bible or at least the first part of the Bible.

As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints I can tell you the "if there is anything virtuous, lovely, of good report, or praiseworthy; we seek after these things" Meaning that truth can come from a variety of sources. Generally we focus on books that have the highest concentration of truth such as the Bible and the Book of Mormon, but it certainly doesn't rule out the study of other pieces of literature that testify of Jesus Christ the Messiah.

Here's an excerpt from the Doctrine and Covenants which is a book of scripture written after the restoration of the church by the prophets of the time. Joseph Smith, who was the prophet of the time, asked God to know whether he should try to translate the Apocrypha and if it would be beneficial for them.


"Section 91
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, March 9, 1833. The Prophet was at this time engaged in the translation of the Old Testament. Having come to that portion of the ancient writings called the Apocrypha, he inquired of the Lord and received this instruction.

1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you concerning the Apocrypha—There are many things contained therein that are true, and it is mostly translated correctly;
2 There are many things contained therein that are not true, which are interpolations by the hands of men.
3 Verily, I say unto you, that it is not needful that the Apocrypha should be translated.
4 Therefore, whoso readeth it, let him understand, for the Spirit manifesteth truth;
5 And whoso is enlightened by the Spirit shall obtain benefit therefrom;
6 And whoso receiveth not by the Spirit, cannot be benefited. Therefore it is not needful that it should be translated. Amen."

So, in essence, if you have the guidance of the Holy Spirit on your quest for truth, you can be assured that our Heavenly Father won't lead you astray.

Answer 3

Matthew 5
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Since Jesus says that whoever practices and teaches the commands in the law will be called great in the kingdom of heaven, doesn't that mean his followers should do them? At least to the best of their ability?

@jumperman

Answer 4

First of all, the torah is Jewish not Christian. Second of all, yes the Jews still abide by the torah 'aka the first 5 books of the bible Genisis Exedous and so on aka the books of law"

Answer 5

First.

@Gabby2117
The Torah is not Jewish. It is Christian as well.

Secondly.

@JoannaBlackwelder
Yes. There are many instances in the New Testament that tells us that we are to follow Torah. Especially in 1 John. I also like to put things into perspective this way: If Jesus followed Torah, (which he did), and if we are to be like Him, then are we supposed to follow the Torah? I believe so. A few commands are not able to be followed. Such commands pertaining to a temple or sacrificial system are not able to be followed because there is no temple currently. But ones such as eating Biblically clean, keeping the Sabbath (Saturday) holy, and many others I believe still apply. We cannot pick and choose.

Thirdly.
@tanner23456
I'll be quick to the chase with this. Joseph Smith himself taught against the Torah. He said that all meats are able to be eaten. According to Matthew 5, he will be considered the least in the kingdom because of that. I also do not believe he was a true prophet. There are many false prophecies and inaccuracies in his works. However, I disagree with the Mormon's belief on spiritual guidance. The Spirit leads people to temptation. I am NOT saying that the Spirit tempts people. But look at Matthew 4. The Spirit led Yeshua, (Jesus) to the wilderness to be tempted. If we are not careful to check certain things with Scripture, then we can be led astray. So, I cannot specifically rely on the Spirit when it might not be the Spirit. It's the same with praying over the Book of Mormon's validity. If we don't check it with Scripture, but only rely on the Spirit, or a spirit... we will be led astray.

Answer 6

@Jumperman you completely disregarded the point of my comment and instead chose to once again attack my belief system. A philosophy that surely goes against Christianity.

However, I will indulge you with this rebuttal, for lack of a better word. You seem to have a fair amount of knowledge when it comes to the bible, but I fear you may lack wisdom. And of that James instructs us to ask of God. James (1:5-6) How does God respond? Through the voice of HIs Spirit, the Holy Ghost. It's important to understand that the Bible is not without error. Conceptual understanding is much more important than details you pick out of context. The Holy Ghost (the Spirit) will never lead someone astray. That's contrary to what Jesus himself said when he stated, "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

The scriptures cannot teach us what is true. They can give us the information, but it is only by the voice of the Spirit that we can receive the truth of anything.

Your accusations of Joseph Smith are not really relevant to this conversation. Furthermore, Matthew 5 doesn't talk about anything to do with meat in the slightest. You might want to solidify that argument before you make it. At any rate, just like the Saviour said, we need to look at the fruits or the works of a prophet to discern whether or not he was assigned by God. Unfortunately, the Prophet Joseph Smith's name has been dragged through the mud from the very beginning. Very similar to the way the Savior was accused of being "gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners." What you choose to believe about him is up to you. But once again, truth can only be discerned by the spirit.

Hope this helps clear up any misunderstandings you've had about the things I believe because you seem to be very interested every time I comment.

Answer 7

@tanner23456
I'm not trying to attack your beliefs... directly.

1st. I am very confused by your statement. "The scriptures cannot teach us what is true." According to the Bible, in 2 Timothy 3:16, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."
Also, in John 1:1-2, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning." So if Jesus is the Word, and He is the way, the truth, and the life, then do the scriptures teach us what is true or false? The Scriptures obviously teach us what is true. Do we need the Spirit's help with determining whether or not Genesis 1:1 is true? Let me ask you, have you prayed whether or not Genesis 1:1 is true?

Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

How do we have faith if we rely upon the Spirit to determine what we believe? Faith is believing in something that we may not even be sure is there. I have tremendous faith! But my faith is because I see the evidence of the Spirit's work, not the Spirit telling me how to do things and where to go. If I am going off track, let me know, I'm trying to work with whatever you give me, and trying to perceive what your meaning is.

Another thing, is attacking your belief system against Christianity? Against God?

Deuteronomy 13:1-3 says, "If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul." So obviously, here, God is asking us to check what the prophet says with the Word of God, and whether or not the prophet is true.

Look at verse 5, "That prophet or dreamer must be put to death for inciting rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery. That prophet or dreamer tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you." So, when I say that Joseph Smith has false prophecies and inaccuracies in his philosophy and theology, am I actually doing something against Scripture?

1 John 4:1 says, "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." So, I am supposed to test the spirits, or prophets that are out there, not just rely on the Spirit to decide for me, because it might not truly be the Spirit. So, I have every right to attack a false belief system that has anti scriptural things in it. I can reference those if you'd like. But, I am following everything that God says for me to do.

Answer 8

God's laws – from both the Old Testament and New Testament – are not just arbitrary expressions of His power. God does not make one thing up today and make up something contradictory tomorrow. He is not a nasty monster asserting that whatever He says goes, even if He says the opposite of what He said yesterday.

The Mosaic Law of the Old Testament was written for the chosen people of Israel. Let me make a distinction between how the Israelites were chosen then and how we as Christians are chosen now because it relates to the purpose of the Law and how we apply it today.

Israel was chosen for a purpose – Genesis 12:1-3. They were God's instruments to accomplish a plan of rescue for the world: God becoming man as a member of the Jewish race and dying on the cross for man's crimes against God. They were not chosen to be saved, rather they were chosen to be used to accomplish God’s plan of salvation. Many of those Jews took advantage of the mercy offered through that plan, and many went wayward. Israel's being chosen did not secure their salvation. It secured a salvation plan for the world, and whether they individually participated in it or not was another question.

Christians are the chosen in the sense that those who are in Christ, putting their trust in Him, are the ones that benefitted from that plan of salvation God was working out through Israel. We put our confidence in Him, so we are chosen regarding salvation.

God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever because He is God. God doesn't change, but that does not mean the way He deals with mankind doesn't change. God dealt with Adam and Eve in one way, and He dealt with the Jews through Abraham with a different plan. He deals with Christians now through a new plan, a new covenant.

There was a unique relationship God had with the nation of Israel as part of the execution of that plan. There is a unique kind of plan that He has in the new covenant that's expressed through Jesus and what He did on the cross.

God changes a lot of different things. He can make plans and play things out so that certain things apply in some cases and don't apply later, though His purpose is constant and unchanging.

The Mosaic Covenant is a treaty God made with the Jews, the nation of Israel. What was the point of the book of Deuteronomy? Deuteronomy is the second time the law is given. It is first given in Exodus when Moses is at Mount Sinai. There’s 40 years of wandering and the first generation dies away. Then there’s a new generation that takes the land under Joshua. Before Moses dies he gives that same law again a second time in Deuteronomy to the new generation that is now meant to take the land and live according to this law as a nation. The important thing is that this is an agreement that God made with Israel. It is not an agreement God made with anyone else.

Nothing that is in the Mosaic Law applies to me as a Gentile in virtue of it being in the Mosaic Law. No command is incumbent upon me in virtue of being part of the law. Here is an analogy: There is nothing in California law that applies to somebody living in Ohio. Ohio has its own statutes. There is a statute against murder in California. Does that mean since I'm not in California it’s okay for me to murder in Ohio? No. I'm not under the California statute, but I am under the Ohio statute. There are a lot of rules that apply in any situation in any state. There are also laws and rules that are unique to a particular state's situation.

The Mosaic covenant is like a state law. It was given to those people in that state for that period of time. We are in a different state now. We have a different covenant that applies to us - the new covenant with different obligations. We are not obliged by everything in the Mosaic Law. That was a set of civil obligations that were applicable to those people in that nation. It was made between God and Moses and Israel. God took them out of the land, He rescued them, and they were obligated to Him as their Sovereign. They had to keep the terms of the covenant. If they did, He would protect them, and if they didn’t, He would forsake them. (Deuteronomy 28) There are blessings and curses in the Mosaic Covenant meant for Israel.

The Mosaic contract is no longer in force. It has been replaced for everyone, including Jews, by the new contract. The new contract is a new enterprise. Gentiles were never under the old contract. Now, Jews and Gentiles alike who put their faith in Jesus are under the new contract.

Does that mean we can go around murdering people because we’re not under the Mosaic Law? No. The obligation not to murder is universal and should be in any law. Just as our law does, the Mosaic Law included universal moral principles. So we are obligated to follow those moral rules, not in virtue of them being in the Mosaic law, but because they are universal for all people. The Mosaic law included universal moral rules and rules that were limited to the nation who lived under that contract. We have to distinguish between these as we consider how we relate to the Mosaic covenant now.

Universal moral obligations from the Mosaic Law are repeated in the New Testament. The things that no longer apply to us are not repeated in the New Testament. It’s exactly like being in a separate state.

For example, love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself are in both the Old and New Testaments. This is a summary statement in the New Testament. Part of it was in response to the Jews. It was hard to keep all the laws, so they decided, let's keep the most important one. There were debates between them about which law was the greatest commandment, so they asked Jesus. The purpose of finding the greatest commandment was to focus on keeping that really well and not worry so much about the others.

Jesus says, you don't have to worry about the rest of the commandments if you can fulfill these: Love your God with your whole heart, soul, mind, and strength; and love your neighbor as yourself. Then, the lawyer who raised the question, seeking to justify himself, asks who is his neighbor. Jesus responds with the parable of the Good Samaritan, which points out even your enemies are your neighbor.

The lawyer is interested in finding a way that he can work his own salvation out by himself. As a Christian for 40 years, I have not had a split second of my life as a follower of Christ when I loved the Lord my God with all my heart, soul, strength, and mind. There has probably been a moment or two in 40 years that maybe I'd love my neighbor as myself, but most of the time, no. I cannot justify myself, Greg Koukl, based on the demands of those simple commandments. This was Jesus’ point. You want to justify yourself? Fine, try these two on for size.

Jesus is emphasizing the complete impossibility of self-justification, which is the fundamental difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. The nation of Israel was obliged to obey the laws of their nation in order to reap God’s blessings or curses. It was based on their obedience. The New Covenant is based on grace, not obedience. The two laws are completely different, so the way they apply to us are different.

When Jesus is talking about loving your neighbor he is not advancing it as a separate ethic. He’s saying that this sums up the obligation of the Old Testament Law. It is meant to be a further burden on anyone that is seeking to justify himself, which is the case for the person who asked the question. If you're seeking to justify yourself, then you have to treat your neighbor this way, and you’re not going to be able to consistently treat your neighbor this way. Therefore, you can’t justify yourself.

Today, we do not live under the Mosaic covenant. We don't have all the laws that pertain to dietary and sacrificial things because Jesus did away with those laws. We don’t have the punishments proscribed in the law because that was for their judicial system in that nation. Just as the punishments for laws in other states don’t apply to us in California (even if we have the same law), we don’t apply those punishments since we aren’t under that system of laws.

The question we have to ask ourselves as New Testament Christians in the New Covenant is, which commands or moral principles are obligatory and would apply regardless of the covenants, because they are universal morals that transcend the Mosaic Law? We need to look at the passages in question and ask: Does this seem to express a moral obligation that transcends the Mosaic Law?

One way to know that is to see how it's worded. Another way is to see if the same kinds of directives come up in the New Testament where the Mosaic Law is not operating. Virtually every one of the Ten Commandments, save the Sabbath, is also expressed in some way or another in the New Testament as morally obligatory. Other things, like homosexuality are forbidden in the Old Testament as well as the New Testament. We have the commands against homosexuality in Corinthians and Romans, so it becomes clear that this is a universal and it is not just simply a provision of the Old Testament Law, while the punishment is limited to that old system and not applicable in the New Testament.

This allows us to answer a lot of challenges that people might make regarding the old law. They say it looks like we’re picking and choosing the Old Testament Law because we’re against homosexuality, but we don't follow these other details. We are picking and choosing, but we are not doing so arbitrarily. We understand the Old Testament law was given as a contract to Moses and was therefore very unique and particular for the nation of Israel. However, there are some things stated in there that go beyond the law and are above the temporal role of the Mosaic Law. They seem to be universals and are therefore in the New Testament.

We are not being arbitrary when we say homosexuality is forbidden. In Leviticus it is being expressed clearly as a universal, right next to bestiality and child sacrifice. These things are wrong in any culture. Indeed, at the end of the chapter, it says people in other cultures practiced these things and they were judged for them. That’s another hint that these are universals and not just a peculiar law limited to the Jews, though the particular application of law was limited to their system of law.

Note also in Ephesians 2 Paul talks about the role of the law. It was a dividing wall that kept the Gentiles and Jews separated. He said that dividing wall has been torn down now so that the Jews and Gentiles can be combined into one new man on the New Covenant having been built on the foundation of the prophets and apostles in Christ Jesus the cornerstone. We are not under the Mosaic Law, but under the New Covenant. The Mosaic Law contained some universal moral principles that apply today because they transcend the old law, but aren’t applied in the same way judicially. The Mosaic Law was limited to a time and nation, but morality was not.
Source: http://www.str.org/articles/how-does-the-old-testament-law-apply-to-christians-today#.V97kEEnrtdg

Answer 9

I used the article because that's my view and I didn't want to type for the rest of my life :D

Answer 10

The Mosaic Law is now the Royal Law, a Royal Torah that has been followed since the beginning. I do not eat pork because, well, it's forbidden. I disagree however. The laws of the Torah are actually needed to be followed by Gentiles too. We see this when God commands Israel that every foreigner who stays in the camp also is obligated to these commands. When we accept Christ as our Messiah, we are grafted into Israel, thus through this adoption, the laws now apply. I think that the law that Paul was talking about in Ephesians 2 is the oral law, which the Jews kept. This law separated Jews and Gentiles from being together as one body of believers. We see in Acts, during Peter's vision, that God tells Peter to not deem anything unclean, that which God has made clean. God is not talking about food, Peter understood this. Peter even told the Gentile who summoned him that is was against the oral law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile. Peter's vision is to break that idea. So, I wholeheartedly believe that the commands in the Mosaic Law still apply to believers. Or else... we could sin all we want and still go to heaven.

Answer 11

@Living4Jesus

Answer 12

@emmigrace222

Answer 13

hell naah they aint jewish duh!!!!!!

Answer 14

Well we follow certain practice from the Jews.

Answer 15

Where did the Jews get it from though?

Answer 16

The Torah, or the Pentateuch, is the central reference of the religious Judaic tradition.

Answer 17

Can it be for Christianity to? Or is it just for Jews?

Answer 18

Its just for Jews. Christians have the bible which contain all the books and not just 5 of them (like the Torah does).

Answer 19

The Torah is in the Bible. So... Jesus, or Yeshua, is the Word, and is Torah, and He lived it. Sin is lawlessness. So what is the law? Torah. Yeshua had to live this out to be without sin. So He never broke the Sabbath, which is on Saturday, not Sunday, he never ate bacon or pork, never had tattoos, never got drunk and so on and so on. If it's only for Jews, then what would be in place for the Gentiles? Another law? There isn't one. There would be one law for both Jew and Gentile. And even Yeshua warned against people who teach others to not follow Torah in Matthew 5. They'd be considered least in the kingdom of heaven. This is the problem I have with some Christians. They want to say that Torah no longer applies because Jesus died on the cross. Where does it say this in the Bible? Yeshua removed the curse of the Torah, which was death for breaking it. That doesn't mean we can go on breaking Torah. Breaking Torah, again, is sin. This goes beyond religion. This is relationship with God. There are principles set in place between a man and a woman who are married. Don't cheat, don't lie, so on so forth. Great. Why is different with God? We are His bride no? So why should we justify our lying, cheating, stealing, murdering, bacon eating, Sabbath breaking society? What about the churches? They do it too. God never said that it's okay for people to eat unclean food. You can throw Acts 10 at me, but I'll just have you read the context of the verse. Peter understood the vision God gave him, why can't we? Why do we have to twist everything to fit our sinful desires? Sabbath isn't on Sunday, it's on Saturday. There is scriptural proof for it. And there is Scriptural proof that we are to follow it, even after Yeshua's death. Constantine changed the Sabbath day because he was a pagan worshiper, but wanted to cater to Christians too. If we love God, we obey His commandments. This is applied generally to all believers. Not to just Jews.