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Mathematics 13 Online
Ballery1:

New question.

Ballery1:

Find the domain and range of a cubic function.

Ballery1:

I cant draw :/

Hero:

What are you trying to draw?

Ballery1:

Function and my solution to the problem

Hero:

|dw:1560720637339:dw|

Hero:

Seems like operator error to me

Ballery1:

Is that a roast?

Ballery1:

|dw:1560720697438:dw|

Ballery1:

I know you told me this method only works for even root functions but i just wanted to see what happens :)

Ballery1:

I did plugin f(-3) and it gave me a positive y value

Hero:

Except it is a cubic function. I told you that the method I showed you is only useful for EVEN roots

Hero:

3 is clearly odd

Ballery1:

I know...i remember.. but i just wanted to test the water u know

Hero:

Test it with even roots

Ballery1:

Got it lol

Ballery1:

Is there an easier method to find the domain of a cubic function?

Hero:

Everything rule I tell you, you find a way to violate. I'm clearly getting a preview of what it will be like having kids.

Hero:

Yes, there is an easier way. It's called "look at that graphing chart I gave you".

Ballery1:

Jesus pieces....why so mad :/ i was jus fiddling with numbers tho :/

Hero:

I guess I have to follow up statements like that with *Humorous Tone* to ease your mind

Ballery1:

|dw:1560721139170:dw|

Hero:

Did you figure it out yet?

Ballery1:

I drew you the behaviour of an odd function...

Ballery1:

With 3rd degree

Hero:

Yeah but did you figure out the domain and range?

Hero:

of the CUBIC Function

Ballery1:

Looking at the parent function of a cubic function, the range should be *all real values are element of y* since there’s no restriction/asymptote..

Hero:

Ah but you're overlooking the SQUARE

Hero:

What happens when a negative number is squared?

Ballery1:

Since the leading degree is 3, the square shouldn’t effect that much...i think

Hero:

What is (-3)^2?

Ballery1:

Becomes positive

Hero:

Exactly, so what does that mean for the range?

Ballery1:

That’s what i said earlier... there’s no restriction...i can plugin any value of x into the function and i’ll Always get a positive result

Ballery1:

Wait hold up.... lol

Hero:

There's no restriction on the RANGE? smh

Ballery1:

Any negative value of x is turned positive with that square inside the cube root....i’m Always getting a positive result..but wait there’s a limit to the range

Hero:

Exactly. Now we have to figure out what that limit is.

Hero:

What do we know about the output of \(y = x^2\)

Ballery1:

It is squared..

Hero:

I'll ask this way, what do we know about the sign of the output value of \(y = x^2\)?

Ballery1:

It’s positive

Hero:

Most specifically, y will always be greater than or equal to zero

Ballery1:

Oh i see... the resultant has to be positive

Ballery1:

Wait, i have a side question here...can you take the cube root of a negative integer ?

Hero:

Okay, I'm going to introduce you to a new method of finding the range of a cubic function. If you can handle it

Hero:

To find the range of a cubic function algebraically, you have to find the inverse of the function.

Hero:

And then domain of the inverse is the range of the function.

Ballery1:

|dw:1560722150370:dw|

Ballery1:

But it has to be short tho....

Hero:

And the answer to your question is YES you can take the cube root of a negative number

Hero:

So what does that tell you about the domain of a cubic function?

Ballery1:

All real numbers?

Hero:

Correct!

Hero:

Now, back to finding the range. I'm going to walk you through this step by step.

Ballery1:

Plz make it short tho :/

Hero:

It's not long if you don't mess up.

Hero:

First set y in place of \(f(x)\)

Hero:

Show your work

Ballery1:

Let me draw.

Ballery1:

|dw:1560722487149:dw|

Ballery1:

What do i do next ?

Hero:

Next swap the x and y values

Ballery1:

|dw:1560722621749:dw|

Hero:

Very good, now isolate \(y\)

Ballery1:

Wait, i need a hint... how do i get rid of the rational power again? Take cube root to both sides?

Hero:

The cube is already a root

Hero:

You should express the function as such

Hero:

You need to express \(y = (x - a)^{m/n}\) as \(y = \sqrt[n]{(x - a)^m}\)

Hero:

Then you should know what to do afterwards.

Ballery1:

I got it... one second...

Ballery1:

|dw:1560722968126:dw|

Hero:

Nope, incorrect.

Ballery1:

One second...

Ballery1:

|dw:1560723019785:dw|

Hero:

Still incorrect. Look at the formula above again before doing any work

Ballery1:

Okie dokie

Ballery1:

Wait, am i close tho?

Hero:

I can't say

Hero:

Just look at the formula. Pay closer attention to where the root is

Ballery1:

|dw:1560723126392:dw|

Hero:

Boom, there you go

Hero:

You should know what to do next

Ballery1:

Do i ? Wait.

Ballery1:

I need a hint

Hero:

Cube both sides.

Hero:

Cube is the inverse of cube root so they cancel.

Ballery1:

|dw:1560723274178:dw|

Hero:

You did not cube both sides.

Hero:

That's not how you cube both sides. You must have been playing games on your smartphone during Algebra. You don't seem to know how to do any Algebra.

Ballery1:

|dw:1560723378394:dw|

Ballery1:

I’m trying ;/

Hero:

Nope that's not "cubing". You should research what it means to cube both sides of an equation. I have a question. What does it mean to square both sides of an equation?

Hero:

Can you show an example?

Ballery1:

It’s like dividing both sides by 1

Hero:

No, it isn't

Ballery1:

Wait, one second let me go watch a quick video.. brb

Hero:

Squaring both sides of an equation (basic algebra btw) |dw:1560723629482:dw|

Ballery1:

Oh that.... smh..

Hero:

Knowing that, what happens if you cube both sides of the equation?

Hero:

Of the equation we're currently working on..

Ballery1:

|dw:1560723858865:dw|

Ballery1:

|dw:1560723888671:dw|

Ballery1:

Is that it?

Hero:

Actually you missed a step let me point it out: |dw:1560724083508:dw| Somehow the 2 disappeared

Ballery1:

|dw:1560724137117:dw|

Ballery1:

I copied the wrong image... smh

Hero:

Oh wait hang on

Hero:

I think I was looking at your work wrong again.

Hero:

You did it right the first time. Sorry

Hero:

I jumped when I saw the two missing but you applied the square root to both sides which is correct

Hero:

Very good. So now..... what is the domain of that function?

Ballery1:

|dw:1560724340904:dw|

Ballery1:

I solved for the y, just as you asked me to..what do i do next?

Hero:

Did you read anything that I posted? Scroll up

Ballery1:

I dont know the domain...:/

Hero:

I'm out. Maybe @Ferredoxin4 can continue from here.

Ballery1:

Aww sorry hero :/ i feel bad now :/

Ferredoxin4:

Let me see the question just a moment

Ferredoxin4:

Hold on, I have to go for a bit, i'll be back in a few

Hero:

@Ballery1 what did I say to do when you have an expression under a square root?

Hero:

You need to apply something to find the domain of the function

Hero:

We were just talking about negative numbers under a square root. What happens if you have a negative under a square root?

Ballery1:

It becomes positive...

Hero:

If you have a NEGATIVE under square root. Can you input that into your calculator? what is the square root of -1?

Hero:

smh. I thought you graduated from this already

Ballery1:

Omg...wait... undefined

Hero:

So the value under the square root must be what?

Ballery1:

It must be equal or bigger than -1

Hero:

Not quite

Ballery1:

No it must be bigger than -1

Ballery1:

I get it now. It should be easy to get the domain from here..

Hero:

The value under the square root must be greater than or equal to zero.

Ballery1:

Yuhh... sq root of 0 is just 0... so it has to be bigger than 0

Hero:

So set the expression under the square root to be greater than or equal to zero to find the domain of that function. When you find that, then you will have the range of the original function

Ballery1:

I get it.. thank you sooooo much hero. You’re a real life hero :)

Hero:

I know you think you got it, but I'd like to see the work.

Ballery1:

I’ll post it in a second.

Ballery1:

Brb :) let me write out everything, i’ll Post the answer in a but :)

Hero:

Your typos are extrapolating.

Hero:

Every single one of them involves some sexual reference.

Ballery1:

What did i do now? :O

Hero:

I'm just stating the trend I'm observing

Hero:

I can list them if you like

Ballery1:

I meant *a bit*

Ballery1:

I swear it was an accident:/

Hero:

I'm stating it so that you know that I know. That way if it happens again, there won't be any more excuses left for you to defend yourself against actions taken against your account.

Hero:

Three accidents over 24 hours all involving the same offense.

Hero:

It was an accident the first time

Ballery1:

Ok i’m Sorry. I just want help with math, that’s all.

Hero:

I just want to say that I'm happy to help you, but we have to be a little strict in terms of language usage since this is an educational site and we're still trying to grow. We have to set an example for newer members so that they know how to behave on the site. You being an a previous member of OS should already know how we operate. I don't recall reprimanding you on OS regarding behavior or usage.

Ballery1:

Ok i have a question. |dw:1560726223515:dw|

Hero:

We're treating this environment in the same manner as if one was in a real classroom environment with active instruction taking place

Hero:

It has to be outside the root since the square root is being applied to the \(x^3\) only

Ballery1:

|dw:1560726276716:dw|

Ballery1:

That’s what i thought... so when i plugin 0 into the root, i get 2. Ok

Hero:

It is not part of the root when finding the inverse.

Hero:

So what is the range of the function?

Ballery1:

The lower limit is 0, and the upper limit is infinite

Hero:

Correct. I highly recommend reviewing domain and range in IXL

Ballery1:

What’s IXL again?

Ballery1:

Extra large?

Hero:

Remember the site you had difficulty seeing the images?

Ballery1:

Oh that... okie dokie.

Ballery1:

And the domain is x has to be equal or bigger than 0.

Hero:

I think we focused so much on the range you forgot what the domain is.

Hero:

We did go over it briefly already

Ballery1:

Oh it has to be a positive integer

Hero:

The question you must ask yourself is are there any restrictions on x? If so, what are they. In other words find the set of x values such that when you evaluate them in the function, gives an invalid or undefined output.

Ballery1:

So the domain should be x has to be equal or greater than 0 right because when i plugin 0, i get 2. And the rest of the x values are defined and bigger and bigger

Hero:

What happens if you plug in negative values for x?

Hero:

Have you tried plugging them in?

Ballery1:

I get an undefined ...

Hero:

For what function?

Ballery1:

When i plugin -1, i get undefined

Hero:

You need the domain of the ORIGINAL function

Ballery1:

Omg... that’s why... smh

Hero:

The goal is to find the domain and range of the original function.

Hero:

The work we did for the inverse was only to find the domain of the inverse to find the range of the ORIGINAL function.

Ballery1:

Ah i see now.

Hero:

It is important to keep track of what you're doing and for what purpose. Always have the goal in mind.

Ballery1:

https://i.imgur.com/lI3qgH8.jpg

Ballery1:

So how do we go about find the domain of the function?

Hero:

You may want to make a template for yourself that has the following for every problem you do: 1. State the Problem 2. State the Goal 3. State the relevant concepts 4. State the plan (how do you plan to solve the problem) 5. Break your work into major parts (A, B, C): A representing the first major step B representing the next major step C representing the third major step ... And so on until you've solved the problem. Then end with a concluding statement.

Hero:

This is how you stay organized while doing mathematics.

Hero:

It's how you avoid losing track

Hero:

The domain of the inverse is the range of the original function. Repeat that 100 times to yourself

Ballery1:

I’ll write that down on top of the paper. And yes

Hero:

But write down that template and apply it to every problem you do

Ballery1:

Did u mean to say *don’t* or *do*?

Hero:

Write down that template and apply to every problem you work on.

Ballery1:

Yes sir. Got it

Hero:

For example: You were given \(f(x) = (x - 2)^{2/3}\) and asked to find domain and range so here's what I would do on paper:

Ballery1:

I literally wrote down the steps to ffind the range of the original function using the inverse method.

Ballery1:

So how do we go about finding the domain of the original function?

Hero:

1. Given: \(f(x) = (x - 2)^{2/3}\) 2. Find domain and range 3. The domain of the function is the set of valid x values of f(x) The range is the set of all valid y values of f(x) 4. To find the domain of a function, in general, I must first consider any restrictions on x. If there are any restrictions on x, I must exclude it from the domain. To find the range of the cubic function I must find the inverse of the original function then find the domain of the inverse function. The domain of the inverse function will be the range of the original function. A. Work to Find domain of the given function is as follows: ..... then post your work B. Work to Find Range of the given function is as follows: .....post that work C. Conclusion: The domain is ..., The range is ...

Hero:

If you deviate from this, you'll have problems such as losing track of where when and what

Hero:

The template saves you from confusion. You'll always know what is going on if you follow this.

Hero:

Even if you get lost, you'll know exactly where you are lost rather than just being lost and having no clue at all

Ballery1:

Thank you for posting the steps

Ballery1:

Ok now that we’ve found the range of the original function using the inverse method, shall we continue to find the domain of the function?

Hero:

\(\color{#0cbb34}{\text{Originally Posted by}}\) @Hero To find the domain, The question you must ask yourself is are there any restrictions on x? If so, what are they. In other words find the set of x values such that when you evaluate them in the function, gives an invalid or undefined output. \(\color{#0cbb34}{\text{End of Quote}}\)

Ballery1:

Yes, let me plugin some values into the original function and see

Ballery1:

Oops, my pencil died...one second plz :)

Ballery1:

|dw:1560728735680:dw|

Ballery1:

|dw:1560728931933:dw|

Ballery1:

|dw:1560729069694:dw|

Hero:

So what does this tell you in terms of the domain? Did you get "invalid" or "undefined" when you evaluate negative numbers?

Ballery1:

The domain is all real values

Hero:

Bingo

Ballery1:

I really appreciate your effort and time :)

Hero:

You're welcome = yw

Ballery1:

Ok :)

Ballery1:

I was just kidding in the chat.

Hero:

mkay

Ballery1:

Ok let me write out everything and i’ll Post the next question *in a bit*.

Ballery1:

Thanks :)

Hero:

Actually I'm offically done for the day. I barely started on my own work. Let's see what you can do with the template method

Ballery1:

Yeah... don’t come back until you finish your own homework. I’ll post my answers here

Ballery1:

Thanks tho :)

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