Question

Short story writing dump, not finished, second draft.

I opened the club room door and stormed outside. Elizabeth was running down the hall with her purse over her shoulder. I stopped and turned around. She seemed out of breath, her cheeks were bright red too. I waved a hand in front of her face, motioning her to back out of my personal space. “You should know I have my problems taking care of Elizabeth.” A visible glint in her eyes told me those were not the words she wanted to hear. I assumed this diva was given everything in life, which is why I urged her to struggle alone. Personally, I felt no more right than wrong telling such a beautiful face an ugly truth. Especially when that truth is about her repulsive boyfriend. Elizabeth clinged onto my muddy, turf-stained dress shirt from behind. I felt her hands sink over my shoulders and down my chest. They wandered to a loose button right below my collar bone, one of the many cordless threads pulled apart by Trent’s rampage. Gently, she grazed the surface with her fingers, as if to understand the very atoms within the brass fastener. I could feel a pair of eyes dart around from the head resting on my injured shoulder. The sound of her breathing was amplified from chasing me down the hall, yet an undeniable warmth came with every rise and fall of her chest. “I’m so ashamed of myself, if only I had stopped my boyfriend from hurting you this much.” Elizabeth’s soft voice gave me every reason to forget the pain I’ve selfishly kept to myself. “What has been done is done. Please do not compare your lack of action to my own going forward. You’re in good hands right now, dwelling on the ‘what has been’ will get us nowhere. Thank you for the concern, though.” She remained silent and continued twirling the fabric in her fingers. They danced across my front in an expert figure eight. It wasn’t just nervous fidgeting anymore, Elizabeth was clearly trying to show off the slender build of her fingers; and it was working. “I have a request to make, if you don’t mind me asking.” I bit the bottom of my lip, contemplating what in the world she could request of me right now. “Go on then, I’m listening.” The swirling pattered off and her head lifted from my crux. She elegantly waltzed around my ragged body, I could only imagine how inferior I must’ve seemed. “Please, my only request is that you look at me. I want you to understand we have more in common than you think...” TBC

It's long, criticism is welcome.

Answer 1

I think it's great!! :)

Answer 2

@Shadow is very good at literary critique. I'll link him here so he can take a look

Answer 3

> way too much conversation, Elizabeth is uninteresting and not motivated enough to be a likeable character
>MC is too bland and generic, every dialogue piece is predictable and meaningless
>Adjectives span out a range of vocab, also not good since the wordyness is very high.
>no prior character introductions, feels empty getting to know the characters and a lot of filler words
>actions are short and sweet but also narrow enough to have trouble following (i.e. MC's recollection of Elizabeth's contact, no one cares about dis shi)
>vague story-telling overall, it has concise flow but fails to engage an interest, no driving force

? how can I provide structure to the scenario without forcing the relationship
? why does the ending feel inconclusive and lacks further interest
? where does Trent's actions fit into this scene and why is it relevant
? who da fuc is Trent mate
? what can I take out to prevent this from dragging on but maintain the same atmosphere

Answer 4

^these are notes btw, just so i can focus on the next draft lol, you don't have to answer the questions above unless you want to. Any feedback is helpful, please don't feel obliged to do so though xd

Answer 5

Also thank you @justjm

Answer 6

Well my tip for the first question is to figure out a way to interrupt what they were saying so that it isn't quite forced. You can throw in Trent running after them to interrupt the situation and that could solve your next three questions and as far as what you could via taking something out, I wouldn't but I would fix up the first part a little bit because I don't know what club he was in and give some background on the situation so that people know what exactly is going on

Answer 7

hope it helps

Answer 8

Thank you, I haven't written about Trent yet. I just fleshed out this scene then I'll go back and put him in. I don't know what he did either or why he's relevant. I felt there had to be something driving the story. Otherwise what point does Elizabeth have to run after the MC.

I might get rid of Trent since he's too obscure of an idea. I felt like a Man vs. Man or Protagonist vs. Antagonist was an easy throw-in until I thought of something better. Clearly Trent is a sucky name for a jerk, I guess I just don't like the name Trent. Either way, your advice is super helpful, thank you again Robin lol.

Answer 9

No problem gg

Answer 10

wow! this work is incredible!! I would never be able to write something so detailed and amazing. Also, there are no words of criticism from me.

Answer 11

Thank you Rye, I appreciate your kind words!

Answer 12

You're welcome!

Answer 13

>replace the use of "her" and "she" with proper nouns when possible, word repetition is all too common

Answer 14

? Give Elizabeth a nickname (?) Kinda tired of reading her name so many times

Answer 15

"good job grey" - darkknight

Answer 16

Maybe her nickname should be Lizzy

Answer 17

Thank you, Batman

Answer 18

UW

Answer 19

\(\color{#0cbb34}{\text{Originally Posted by}}\) @RyeBread1
Maybe her nickname should be Lizzy
\(\color{#0cbb34}{\text{End of Quote}}\)
Maybe? I want something not totally friendly but still recognizable. I chose Elizabeth because of all the nickname possibilities (Eli, Lizzy, Beth, Liza etc.)

Answer 20

hahaha, lizo

Answer 21

Not beth i dont like that one, it makes her sound old. Eli is cool i like that one

Answer 22

^

Answer 23

lizo love that one

Answer 24

Beth does make her sound old, I agree, but I think it fits her archetype somewhat. It's also pretty formal which is what I'm going for. I think different friend groups will call her different nicknames (her girlfriends will call her Eli, Trent calls her Liza, eccentric father could call her Lizzy [kinda embarrassing, good way to see a different side of her] and Beth is what acquaintances call her [not quite friends but still act friendly out of courtesy] so on and so forth)

Answer 25

I think that is a great idea

Answer 26

I like that the best.

Answer 27

>some adjectives are not a good use of diction, remove 4 letter adjectives and replace them with something besides first grader words ("ugly truth" "soft breath" "bright red" "flushed red" [? is this concise] "loose button" [not sure how else to phrase this, see a thesaurus on this one, buddy])

Answer 28

i think the way you have it is perfect

Answer 29

Your words flatter me Rye, I like it, but I feel like there's room for improvement. This is only the second draft, I'll probably pull this through the wringer a few more times. I'm really glad you enjoy what I have so far, that makes my job a bit easier going forward lol

Answer 30

No offense but you are looking into it a little too much. Stick to your gut and fix up things when they really need fixing but I would wait until you have the whole story to worry about details like that because you might discourage yourself from writing the story at all.

Answer 31

Thank you for saying that! There is always room for improvement, but for the most part, wherever there isnt need for improvement is perfect.

Answer 32

> I assumed this diva was given everything in life total a-hole sarcastic statement, don't like this and need to remove & replace for something more sensual.

Answer 33

Ok then, that's one of those need-more-improvement statements

Answer 34

@TheRobin I really do enjoy writing the characters and I like the direction they're heading, which is why I want more depth into their development. It's a delicate balance, I can't write something like War and Peace overnight. This has been in the works since October of 2018, I only have around 12 pages that are in the extremely rough phase of being a real story. This is, by far, the most legible page. Everything hinges on this being good, or else I'll have a half baked story I think.

Answer 35

Woah! You've been working on this for 2 years?! That's crazy. Is this for fun or school?

Answer 36

Just for fun and whenever I have some spare time. I mostly dumped all my ideas on paper and built situations off those. The one I just posted along with an actual "fight scene" are my most scrutinized pieces. After I'm done with the final draft of this page, I'll post the fight one for feedback.

Answer 37

Oooo! I can't wait to read them. And I think this book is a great idea!

Answer 38

I understand you want it to be perfect but that is why you wait until you finish and then go back and touch up, writers first books are never good, nor are their second or third ones but the practice of writing those first few and their determination is what makes them take off, not being overly OCD over their first 12 pages

Answer 39

My ego says thank you once again @RyeBread1 lol. I actually took inspiration from a South Park episode to start writing this book/story. This excerpt doesn't reflect that inspiration much but I assure you there's a lot of other elements that point to some impossible scenarios.

Answer 40

Well, I am saying you're welcome.

Answer 41

\(\color{#0cbb34}{\text{Originally Posted by}}\) @TheRobin
I understand you want it to be perfect but that is why you wait until you finish and then go back and touch up, writers first books are never good, nor are their second or third ones but the practice of writing those first few and their determination is what makes them take off, not being overly OCD over their first 12 pages
\(\color{#0cbb34}{\text{End of Quote}}\)

This is just a second draft, I have a lot that I need to change regardless of what grievances I have. I haven't made a story board or outline, which is why I'm going back and using loose ideas that pop into my head. It's entirely on the fly thinking without any prior planning. The entire scene was written straight from my mind, no notes or outlines. I strongly dislike outlines because they limit creativity. Which is why I'm choosing to create these ideas as I write and it's important to go over every detail since, well, I don't have the structure to cut those corners.

Answer 42

Well that changes a lot. If you had used an outline or plan then going back and fixing would do you no good but with what your doing (which is what I do), then I would say keep going. However I would lighten up a bit on your own self criticism and wait a few chapters before going back and fixing stuff

Answer 43

I totally agree, the notes I'm leaving for myself are dependent on what I change in the future. Some notes will become irrelevant (like the whole Trent thing since he's just a place holder) or they'll become more profound. I'm trying to cover all my bases before I decide to dive into more of the story. All the notes I'm leaving will definitely be useful for now, it all depends on if they're going to hold the same merit after an additional 12 or 60 pages.

Answer 44

Yeah that definitely works best in my opinion. I usually don't take notes for myself and then after the first chapter (or paragraph in case of short story), I'll go back and change things I don't like and do this for every chapter and/or paragraph and reread all that I have written every so often to make important changes until by the end I have a story without loopholes or any problems with misunderstanding and that is how I write but I am kinda reckless with writing because I have an ego when it comes to reading and writing.

Answer 45

Yes I do the same thing, I haven't even made a complete story line yet. This is just me trying to find out what direction I should take along with tightening up loose ends before I move on. I make several copies of each change I make, so if I want to use an old idea I can go back and grab it without having to worry about checking my grammar or diction. It's better for long term and adds up over the course of 2 years.

Answer 46

yeah that's really good, I hadn't thought about keeping old ideas, I'll have to start doing that from now on

Answer 47

Me neither, I found it useful as soon as I started writing a lot lot lot more. Sometimes it's cool to set aside good ideas, or just mention random plot cues and figure out how to piece them together. Honestly it's a lot easier when you're like me and don't use storyboards.

Answer 48

yeah story boards suck

Answer 49

> STOP USING "HER" AND USE PROPER NOUNS

Answer 50

lol

Answer 51

hahaha

Answer 52

Gonna drill that into my skull

Answer 53

>add more context to the guilt Elizabeth feels for letting Trent beat up MC (like uhhh, MC realizes that he's not the only one who is hurt, there's an emotional wound that comes with the responsibility Elizabeth feels. Returns nicely into "the pain I’ve selfishly kept to myself.")

Answer 54

>Elizabeth is a four syllable name, far too wordy to use in a normal sentence that references her character. Might have to change it to a different name (?) or use a nickname; either-or.

Answer 55

>connect (Personally... boyfriend) with an EM dash.............. here:

--truth. Especially--
to
--truth—especially--

Answer 56

yasss keep it upppp

Answer 57

@chance Thank you!!

Answer 58

np

Answer 59

Chance?

Answer 60

It is good

Answer 61

I have my own presumptions about you, so I was thoroughly impressed by this piece.

Here's a few points of criticism:
1. Please put spacing.
-A large block of words is intimidating to the reader and many may choose not to read it. As a bare minimum, break up the sentences into segments and paragraphs.

2. Make it pretty

It was painful/slow to get into it. As you pointed out, the characters are bland and uninteresting at the start. You can begin to ameliorate this by adding in something like: "Embroiled in anger (desire/passion/hate/etc) I stormed out of the club (insert club name, Club Penguin).

Add emotions that we can relate to. Add motivations and desires we have felt. Add concreteness to the characters and the environments they're in. Once you said club, I envisioned a prestigious club that I had a victory dinner at with my Mock Trial team. Your words are portals into your world and the readers imagination, play with this by imparting your vision as clearly and appropriately detailed as possible.

3. Chill

\(\color{#0cbb34}{\text{Originally Posted by}}\) @TheRobin
No offense but you are looking into it a little too much. Stick to your gut and fix up things when they really need fixing but I would wait until you have the whole story to worry about details like that because you might discourage yourself from writing the story at all.
\(\color{#0cbb34}{\text{End of Quote}}\)

Robin has a good point. Whilst I understand that this is a rough draft and it's been on the drawing board for some time, creative writing requires its own leisure. You cannot force creativity. And whilst you can toil on the grammar, I believe the best imaginative details come freely, not forced.

Grab some tea, sit back in a chair with your notepad or laptop. Who is your character? Where is he? Why is he there? Imagine them in a blank space and then build a world around them. There is a place for construction writing (being exact in your words), which is to accomplish a certain objective. For example, if you're trying to speak to boys with girl troubles in their teens, maybe you want to make sure you don't have too many unique/peculiar traits. But if you're just writing to create something beautiful/fun, sit back and relax.

If you put your full creative efforts into it, something amazing will come about no doubt.

I look forward to more drafts and your future works. PM me anytime about writing or we can even hop on Discord.

Cheers.

Answer 62

Wow you are better at writing than me LOL! I love it. so engaging. Keep up the good work ♥

Answer 63

Thank you for your help @Shadow I did have it in a paragraph format on the Word document but QC didn’t transfer that layout over. Also there’s a character limit, which I was very close to hitting, so any formal indentation would’ve been lost. Rest assured, I’ve taken that into account lol. The other two points you’ve made are valid. I feel like there’s a lot more stuff i can cram in, but not sure where. To that end, I find myself asking too many questions or second guessing their progression. Sometimes I wonder if this is a convincing enough scenario. It’s so sudden and doesn’t provide any motivation to continue reading past this excerpt. I guess I’m struggling to find why the MC is in this scenario and how it contributes to his development. Which, again, leads to the inconsistent nature of the setting and the events that proceed it. Those are totally major points I have to look into when reviewing this draft. Again, thank you so much for you feedback, it’s extremely helpful to hear someone else’s point of view.

Answer 64

Yeah np.

And I forgot to add, the imagery in the mid section and ending was amazing and captivating. It showed that you're a good writer with immense creativity.

All I can say to the 'asking of many questions' is that perhaps it comes from a place of perfection seeking or something of the like. I'm not sure what to say. But what I do know is that when I write creatively, it feels like impulse over anything else. Perhaps find the emotions/desires which drive you to write, and let yourself feel them. Also, it helps to drown out distractions and place yourself around something consistent, like music.

This is my favorite mix for studying/doing creative writing:
'Infinite' Ambient Mix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0svuurLibQ&feature=youtu.be

And sometimes I do look back at my poems, and notice flaws or ways which I could have made it flow better. But I accept it as the beauty and imagination that it was in the moment. A raw rock like that which was born from the closest thing I could call true. Now that I saw as having a place in the world, above even my expectations and wishes.

In short, write like your words belong on the page.

Answer 65

FINAL NOTES:
>way too much conversation, Elizabeth is uninteresting and not motivated enough to be a likeable character
>MC is too bland and generic, every dialogue piece is predictable and meaningless
>Adjectives span out a range of vocab, also not good since the wordyness is very high.
>no prior character introductions, feels empty getting to know the characters and a lot of filler words
>actions are short and sweet but also narrow enough to have trouble following (i.e. MC's recollection of Elizabeth's contact, no one cares about dis shi)
>vague story-telling overall, it has concise flow but fails to engage an interest, no driving force
>Add emotions that we can relate to. Add motivations and desires we have felt. Add concreteness to the characters and the environments they're in.
>connect (Personally... boyfriend) with an EM dash.............. here:

--truth. Especially--
to
--truth—especially--

>STOP USING "HER" AND USE PROPER NOUNS
> I assumed this diva was given everything in life total a-hole sarcastic statement, don't like this and need to remove & replace for something more sensual.
>some adjectives are not a good use of diction, remove 4 letter adjectives and replace them with something besides first grader words ("ugly truth" "soft breath" "bright red" "flushed red" [? is this concise] "loose button" [not sure how else to phrase this, see a thesaurus on this one, buddy])
>add more context to the guilt Elizabeth feels for letting Trent beat up MC (like uhhh, MC realizes that he's not the only one who is hurt, there's an emotional wound that comes with the responsibility Elizabeth feels. Returns nicely into "the pain I’ve selfishly kept to myself.")
>Elizabeth is a four syllable name, far too wordy to use in a normal sentence that references her character. Might have to change it to a different name (?) or use a nickname; either-or.

? how can I provide structure to the scenario without forcing the relationship
? why does the ending feel inconclusive and lacks further interest
? where does Trent's actions fit into this scene and why is it relevant
? who da fuc is Trent mate
? what can I take out to prevent this from dragging on but maintain the same atmosphere
? Give Elizabeth a nickname (?) Kinda tired of reading her name so many times